LMA-3 and LC-1 w. XD-16 gauge installation

[jsveb]

Hi
I have chosen to post this here instead of the Tech section, since I know a lot of you have done this before. What I am doing is not new in any way. I have seen many great installations which I shamelessly copy.

Jwasbury and Cole930 comes to mind.

I have got the LMA-3 and the LC-1 kit.
I have made made a base board (what is the correct term for this?) out of a sheet of ALU I bought at Lowes. I bent the edges to give it some rigidity.
I made some rubber blocks out of some Floor/furniture protectors. to elevate the board and to dampen vibrations. The blocks and board are secured to the floor under the pax. seat with HD velcro.

I have ordered a two hole gauge mount that'll reside at the ashtray position.

It has been somewhat harder for me to source the parts than expected. I have been at Lowes, Autozone (i.e.) and radio shack. So far I only have my DIY board and a six position terminal block. I need some more term. block which I'll get at radio shack later.
Now I need fuse blocks. These I am considering ordering from Summitracing, since I have not been able to source these locally. Not the type Cole930 used anyway.

My initial question are actually quite simple: It is about what wire to buy. Thius whole 10, 12, 14 gage etc is new to me.

What wires do I need?

1. for unswitched power?
2. for switched power.
3. for ground from BAT term. (have read cole930 post on this...)?
4. for the rest of the wiring.

I should say that I am trying to build this upgradeable. Who knows what I wanna do later on... So I am trying to make room and connections for later add-ons.

I have tought about using Deutsch connectors to hook up the three wiring bundles (copy-paste from cole930 -again) one from trunk, one from dash, one from engine.
What do you think about this? the reason I am hesitating on this, is the fact that this adds another connection that can corrode, but it will make it easy to unhook and modify.

Feel free to comment on my initial (borrowed) ideas. Anything I am totally missing?

Thank you

Jesper

[billjam]

Hi Jesper.
Looks like you have researched this well.
I'll add a few points that I learned along the way as I have exactly the same gear installed in my car.
I didn't find the need for connectors anywhere, although I used a couple of terminal blocks under the seat near the LMA-3 to help organise my wiring.
I mounted the LC-1 just above the relay panel at the left side of the engine bay and ran all the cables into the car from there. They weren't long enough to go all the way so I bought some similar multicore shielded cable from Radio Shack and added about a metre into the cables. I soldered all joints and used heat-shrink tubing on the separate wires and around the bundle.

Wire size: I am also not familiar with wire gauge sizes, but the smallest size is adequate for all the signal wires. The earth and power to the O2 sensor might need larger cables - I'm sure someone will confirm.

I added a few extra wires into my loom from the engine bay to the terminal blocks for future sensors as well.

Here's my wiring diagram which might be of use. All colours are as per the Innovate parts.

[cole930]

Jesper,

Good to see others starting to do their own projects. You'll be fine. Some suggestions I might make as food for thought. Pick your central location as the interior floor or the trunk. The trunk works well and probably has easier access but I found the interior easier to work with when ringing and running wires.

The 12,13,14 thing is nothing other that wire size, referred to as wire gage, the smaller the gage number the larger the wire.

1. I got all my terminal strips, ground bars, and fuse blocks on Evil Bay.
Able to buy everything from 1 source, reasonably priced, great selection
quick shipping.

2. Keep consistency of color for power switched (16 gage red), grounds
(16 gage brown), power unswitched (16-18 gage black) everything else
18-10 gage.

3. Use all stranded wire and soldered connections.
(1) main ground (isolated from body ground) wire from Batt. Neg. to a
wiring chassis grounding bar and from the wiring chassis grounding bar
to a trunk grounding bar. Run all new engine compartment components
grounds to that trunk grounding bar and all new interior component
grounds to the chassis grounding bar. Make this main ground wire a min.
10 or 12 gage.

4. Run 2 wire bundles 1 to the trunk and 1 to the dash from the wiring
chassis. Add 3-4 spare wires in each bundle as spares. Put the wire
bundles in looms and pull the looms to the dash and the trunk.

HOPE THIS ANSWERS SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS GOOD LUCK !!!!!

Cole

[jsveb]

Thank yo guys for chiming in.

Billjam, I have been studying your setup as well. Got a print out of your diagram already -thanks.

Cole930, well I am not done yet, and wont be for a while (work, work) this is pretty much just copy paste from what you guys have already done.

I thought I would have made more progress on it today, but I had to change the quarter window seals. That is a rotten job...not done yet.

I will mount the board under the OAX seat. I have already made the ALU board that can just fit between the carpets (front and rear). This way it'll be easier to hook up a lab top.

Now I'll shop on ebay.

and yes it answered my questions. You guys have already been a lot of help -thanks


Jesper

[xbmwguy]

hey guys i dont mean to jump in but....... i only have an lc-1 and a g5 guage and for the past 2 years have been living with a guage that is jumpy. i say jumpy cause it goes from 13.4 to 14 then back to 13.8 so on and so on. i have used diff grounding points and also checked the lap top and it too is jumping around. has anyone had this same issue? and whats the fix.. i know its not going to be rock steady but its kinda nuts like this thanks

[IMR-Merlin]

you could have a slight misfire.

[cole930]

XBMW:

Thats really a tough one. It can be anything from a spitting injector to a loose connection. The electrical is probably the easiest to check and these are infamous for grounding issues. I'd start by rechecking grounding and then checking all the connectors, solder joints, and terminal screws. If you crimped your terminal that's
the first place to start, solder all terminals.

Cole

[smurfbus]

I'd say it just normal. The LC-1 has so high sample it shows every misfire as lean spikes and I bet even good engines misfire some? My Innovate products (LC-1, LMA-3, LM-1, LM-2) all jump around 0.5 delta on idle but when on WOT it's much better. How is yours on WOT?

Example of WOT AFR that does not jump around and this is NOT smoothed data. It's easy to show smooth AFR you just dial in filter/smoothing and you suddenly have no more jumps!

Many other widebands have much less sample rate so they can't pic up every misfire so they might show a nicer looking curve.

[xbmwguy]

thanks cole. smurf dmatera and i tried to 'smooth' it the other day by going to advanced then swtching from instant to 1/2 ? but ended up having to go back to factory default. i know afrs are good in 3rd at 5500 (low to mid 11s) but it just anoys me when its jumpin around like it does. what is the correct way to"smooth" the "kid" i spoke with at tune tour car didnt have a clue thanks frank

[IMR-Merlin]

Originally Posted by cole930

XBMW:

Thats really a tough one. It can be anything from a spitting injector to a loose connection. The electrical is probably the easiest to check and these are infamous for grounding issues. I'd start by rechecking grounding and then checking all the connectors, solder joints, and terminal screws. If you crimped your terminal that's
the first place to start, solder all terminals.

Cole

that and run a separate grounding locations. Even the Innovative install manual will tell you not to run the grounds to the same location.

[cole930]

XBMW:


Call Innovate and talk to Klatinn. If anyone can give answers it's him.

Cole

[jsveb]

Originally Posted by IMR-Merlin

that and run a separate grounding locations. Even the Innovative install manual will tell you not to run the grounds to the same location.

I just want to be sure that I understand this. The way I understand what I have read from Cole930 is that if I run a "new" ground directly from the BAT nec. pole and to a terminal bar. And then mount every single grounding wire from the various components to each own slot in the ground term. bar.
The same grounding source is to be used in the engine compartment for the i.e. Innovate components out there. This way we are pretty sure that all the various components are referenced to the same (true) "zero".

Jesper

[IMR-Merlin]

Page 6....

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LC-1_Manual.pdf

[cole930]

Jesper,

That is correct, with the exception of each having it's own slot on the grounging bar, it's ok to tie some of the grounds to the same slots on the grounding bar. What we are doing is creating our own isolated ground just for the innovate components. The common ground for all the electrics of the car are grounded to the chassis and we don't what any of those to cause spikes of interference in the innovate components so we are creating seperate grounding just for the innovate. Doing this eliminateds any ground loops and offsets between the innovate and everything else that is grounded to the normal chassis ground.

Cole

[jsveb]

IMR- merlin and Cole930, I have read the manual and try to understand what you have been explaining, but my tech. english skills are being tested when trying to figure this out.

I guess we'll see once I get the parts and begin to lay it al out as I intend.

Thank you very much for your input.

Jesper

[cole930]

Jesper,

I know what you mean, my Danish really sucks !!!!!!!

Cole

[jsveb]

Hi guys
Merry Xmas.
I am back at working on the installation of my LC-1 kit.
I have laid it all out on the floor to get an overview of how things should be connected.
I thought I had all the parts I need, but...

This might need a picture to explain, I'll try without.

The LC-1 to LMA-3 is pretty straight forward, but from the LMA-3 to the XD-16, it seems that I need another serial cable which was not suplied. Is this correct?

What I am asking is basically just if the connection between the LMA-3 to the LC-1 is just a serial cable (I think it is)? If it is I need to buy such one.

Can this be bought in Radio Shack?

Thank you
Jesper

[jsveb]

Originally Posted by cole930

Jesper,

I know what you mean, my Danish really sucks !!!!!!!

Cole

Cole, are you picking up on the danish yet

Jesper

[john930]

You should have the LC-1 with the terminator plug in the serial IN. From the OUT of the LC-1 go to the IN of the LMA-3. From the OUT of the LMA-3 go to the IN of the XD-16. You connect these with the Male 2.5 to Male 2.5 cable Innovates part number is 3760

[jsveb]

Originally Posted by john930

You should have the LC-1 with the terminator plug in the serial IN. From the OUT of the LC-1 go to the IN of the LMA-3. From the OUT of the LMA-3 go to the IN of the XD-16. You connect these with the Male 2.5 to Male 2.5 cable Innovates part number is 3760

Thank you.

I need the male-male cable then (3760).

Jesper