Andial Module under my seat

kresdon999 · 03-12-2013, 12:47 PM

I removed my driver's seat to make repairs and found this arrangement - can anybody shed light on the Andial module?-what function does it enhance? This is an 88 930 Cabriolet I purchased off the internet-my prior 88 930 did not have this arrangement to the best of my recollection. Thanks for your help

Ronnie's.930 · 03-12-2013, 02:11 PM

There is quite a bit of info on this if you do a search (such as the following links) -

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/419205-andial-problem.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/481494-andial-fuel-enrichment-instructions.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/628190-andial-fuel-enrichment.html

kresdon999 · 03-12-2013, 04:03 PM

thanks for the reply-looked at the links and it was helpful. Need some help with the techno vernacular- what does WUR stand for?

kresdon999 · 03-12-2013, 04:22 PM

never mind- Warm Up Regulator- just figured it out

mark houghton · 08:12 PM

Used to have an Andial that I was running with prior to selling it and converting over to an adjustable WUR (somewhere a few years ago I started an acronym listing...you'll need to review that in order to make any sense out of some of the discussions going on here).

The Andial's work ok, but rather primitively in the fuel they can dump in. Not a bad system, but there are better options. The Andial really isn't necessary unless your car is running with mods (and possibly higher boost) that may necessitate a bit more fuel under boost. If your Andial is still functional, then you should also have a potentiometer somewhere that allows you to adjust the duty cycle of the frequency valve, and somewhere there has to be a boost sensing module (also adjustable) to set the boost threshold upon which the Andial does it's thing.

Wheeling WV, huh? I used to visit a fresh cut produce manufacturer there in my past life.

alwaysflat6s · 03-12-2013, 08:30 PM

What Mark said.

Best use for it is to ignore it. They were unexceptional in their day and are outmoded now. If you haven't been using it, you don't need what little it did. For that matter, if you didn't know it was there that was because it no longer functioned or a past owner disconnected it. Let it rest in peace and enjoy your car.
JR

spuggy · 03-12-2013, 10:18 PM

I'd argue that the best thing you could do with the Andial module is disconnect it, and use a modern part - such as the Split Second AIC (additional injector controller) - to drive the Andial frequency valve - if you needed extra enrichment, or to tune the AFRs at higher RPM.

There's a thread somewhere around here where a guy ceremoniously burnt his Andial module. Probably wouldn't be so funny the second time - but you could give it a go

kresdon999 · 03-13-2013, 06:24 AM

thanks for the feedback- haven't even driven the car (other than in and out of trailer) yet. Trying to get everything buttoned up and refreshed this Winter. There is a control knob for the Andial - now with your help I can try and adjust it and see whether it works- thanks again!

kresdon999 · 03-13-2013, 06:27 AM

thanks for your input-I am much better informed now thanks to this site--was the Produce Market Jebbia's?

66cal912 · 66cal912's Garage

I wouldn't jump the gun on taking your Andial fuel enrichment out of service, test it and see if has any affect while driving the car, if you have an AFR gauge that should show some results, with regards to leanness while on boost. The module still has merit, otherwise they wouldn't sell complete for around $800.00 bucks, 20 - 30 years old. They last about 2 days on ebay when they are for about that price with the buy it now opinion. Each click of the knob gives about a 10% fuel increase once the system is on, and it should kick in around 6.5 bar of boost if the presure senser is adjusted correctly.

Thats my 2 cents...

Ben

Ronnie's.930 · 03-13-2013, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66cal912

I wouldn't jump the gun on taking your Andial fuel enrichment out of service, test it and see if has any affect while driving the car, if you have an AFR gauge that should show some results, with regards to leanness while on boost. The module still has merit, otherwise they wouldn't sell complete for around $800.00 bucks, 20 - 30 years old. They last about 2 days on ebay when they are for about that price with the buy it now opinion. Each click of the knob gives about a 10% fuel increase once the system is on, and it should kick in around 6.5 bar of boost if the presure senser is adjusted correctly.

Thats my 2 cents...

Ben

Well since 6.5 bar is around 94.25 psi, the engine would be toast long before the Andial unit kicked in!

mark houghton · 03-13-2013, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Well since 6.5 bar is around 94.25 psi, the engine would be toast long before the Andial unit kicked in!

And all this time I thought you were an English teacher. What's a decimel point or two between friends?

JFairman · 03-13-2013, 09:10 AM

In theory it's the perfect thing for fuel enrichment in a turbocharged CIS fuel injection system.
I've never seen or tried one out but everyone say's it's old technology and there are more modern add on electrical devices available these days that can control an electronic fuel injector to do the same thing better.

The Andial thing uses an inline efi fuel injector or frequency valve or pulse valve... or whatever you want to call it to bleed off hydraulic control pressure fuel from the top of the control plunger cylinder and lets it return to the fuel tank in the main fuel return line.

When it does that as you open the throttle butterfly and the motor speeds up and spins up the turbo the air flow meter plate can drop down farther letting in more air to the turbo intake and pivot the see saw like linkage it's mounted on inside the air flow meter and push the control plunger in the middle of the fuel head upwards higher in it's cylinder and uncover more of the 6 fuel metering slits in it's cylinder wall so more fuel can flow through them and then continue on to the 6 upper differential chambers for final fuel meterng and then upwards on out of the fuel head through the injector lines and fuel injectors.

Describing how the 6 seperate upper and lower differential chambers work and what they do is another subject that is different and more complicated between cast iron black painted euro fuel heads and newer aluminum lambda fuel heads and I won't go there. I have before in the past on other threads.

I hope that sort of explains the andial fuel enrichment device semi simply...

66cal912 · 66cal912's Garage

my bad, ;-) .65 bar or roughly 9.4 psi

alwaysflat6s · 03-13-2013, 12:24 PM

Sorry guys. I am not interested in getting into an online argument, but this was a made up add on that ..sorta worked..back in the day. If you knew them and spent time discussing some of their stuff with them... well.. they were a damn sight better than a lot of the snake oil salesmen that were selling 930 "enhancements". They got a great rep and good for them but they did plenty of screw ups also. For the period..way back... this unit was a decent attempt to make more power. But that was then.

These units.. Sure I had one way back, I even got a Miller Woods at one point. I finally woke up.. thanks to my brother who builds these cars and understand more than I will ever know.. and got rid of all this JUNK. Sorry, it is junk by today's standards.

If you like this stuff, great. I think it is a waste of time, money, and there are much more relevant ways to waste money making these cars got faster/better. And a lot better things we could be wasting our time discussing about what does and doesn't' work on 930s.

Over and OUT!
JR

wjfk32 · 03-13-2013, 01:24 PM

1982-sc-3.3Turbo
I installed an HKS-7TH Injector AIC-(a little more sophistciated.) back in 1994. I did do a top end buid-7006-SC CAMS-EURO-HEADERS-B&B DUAL ETC..ETC..Recently I added an ms6al-+epoxy coil-kepstage 2 915-clutch. I am always tinkering here and there..

What I can tell if you that system works like a nitrous system-feel in my car--night and day difference.

Yes-The fuel isn't evenly distributed and other things..

I can play around with boost-fuel dumping and rev control-dumping and watch my AFR's. As long I have an open road and empty-- I can make the settings more than optimal..

I just wouldn't call it JUNK, its more of a safety device....I use my car for hwy-weekend fun..If i was racing-most likely i wouldn't use it..But everyting else out there cost nice gelt...

My car has just over 25,000 miles/engine and have it at 1bar.. And it runs well and fast.

Walt

vas930 · vas930's Garage

It is old tech and better ways have come along.
However, I have it on my car and it still works.
Car makes a bit over 400hp and has been this way for over 20 years.
The car runs great, no WUR drama from stuffing around with it.
Perfect idle with no fuel probs over that time.
Car gets driven hard on and off track, never had engine issues in the 24 years with this system.

If you don't have one, you would not install one now.
But, if you have it and it works, or can be fixed easy and dont plan on much more than 400hp.
I would check to see if it is working and go from that.
Good luck.

PS, these guys know a hell of a lot more than me.

voitureltd · 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysflat6s

Sorry guys. I am not interested in getting into an online argument,

Over and OUT!
JR

No argument. My old school built 930s still work well as they were done by the pro's of that time but no doubt that my newer 930's with current enhancements put out lots more and cost way more to build ( and maintain ).

Vas930, I agree, my old tech cars always run nice with no drama. They are all around 360 - 400 hp which is plenty good for spirited driving. Want to win with the fastest car, well then you can spend a ton on the latest & greatest builds. They are nice also.

mark houghton · 03-13-2013, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjfk32

I just wouldn't call it JUNK, its more of a safety device....

I'm getting a kick out of reading these. Man, are we a bunch of polarized dudes (myself included)!

I think Walt boiled it down. The Andial is crude but affective in at least being a safety device, probably capable of washing the cylinder walls with fuel if not set up properly. I ran it for several years and changed because I wanted something more adjustable across a wider spectrum and not just on boost. Thus, the BL WUR.

I would say that if you have one, and it's set up right and working well for you, then use it and save your coin for something else.

voitureltd · 06:19 AM

I have a new BL adjustable and a RPM selonoid of his new in the box. I have often thought of using it however everything is running and doing fine as is so it just sits there. Does it really work better than the other stuff on my early 930 cars now? The " old school" Andial and 7th injector set ups work in the power range (over 11psi ) otherwise the cars perform perfectly below that so what is to be gained ? Maybe that BL stuff was for the later 80s 930 cars FI systems. Mine are the early CIS 930's. Just interested to find out why some have such bad experience and I have not. I have later 80's 930 but they are already with Motec etc, so BL stuff is not usable in those.