Time to upgrade Jeff NJ's 930

[Jeff NJ]

So last spring I started a thread about what my options were to upgrade my car here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/806512-lets-upgrade-jeff-njs-car-thread.html

Got lots of great advice and talked to a bunch of great people about it. I've had my 930 for just over a year and have put almost 3000 glorious, ***** eating grin miles on it. My clutch has been giving me some issues as I can't get it into reverse when the engine is warm without grinding the hell out of it. I replaced all the stuff outside the motor (omega spring, cable, pedal bushings, etc.) to no avail, so its time to pull the motor and see what is wrong with the clutch. I am thinking either the shift fork is worn or bent, or the pilot bearing is failing. Either way, motor is coming out and I figured while I'm in there, time to upgrade! I'll also be changing a bunch of leaky gaskets and seals and some other "while your in there" maintenance items. Everything coming off is getting boxed up and packed away in case the car becomes more valuable in stock form if I ever sell.

I have everything disconnected from the motor and am ready to drop it. Some friends are coming over Sunday to help with the drop, so hopefully I'll have pics of the motor out by Sunday night!
Here is what I'm doing:

• K27HFS turbo - bought it from a member here!
• TurboKraft half bay long neck Intercooler. Black anodized.
• RarlyL8 headers with heat.
• B&B muffler - cat delete, single out. Sounds great. Already installed. Purchased here from a member.
• BL WUR - Brian is back in business!!
• Tial 46 mm Waste gate. Not sure what spring I'm going with.
• PLX wideband AFR gauge and boost gauge.
• Wevo Short shift kit. This is already installed and I love it.
• Rebel Racing engine mount and motor and trans mount bushings.
• Suspension refresh -sway bar bushings, trailing arm bushings, control arm bushings, drop links. Probably getting the Bilsteins re-valved.
• Fuel line replacement - speaking with Len about this now. Nothing wrong with mine, but I figured it was time. Much easier with the motor out.
• Valve adjustment - no idea when it was done last. Will inspect the rockers, arms, valves, head studs, etc. while I'm in there.
• All the suspension, gasket, and other assorted parts were purchased from our host whenever possible.

I'm hoping for about about 400 HP compared to 282 stock and considerably more torque too. Opinions on HP/TQ gains? I am planning on dyno'ing it once I'm done to validate the butt dyno. Should be a fun and educational winter project. I am a little nervous about my first engine drop, but I know that the brain trust here will help to get me through any issues that come up that are beyond me.

Here are some pics of the parts along with some before I started and where I am now shots. Headers and Tial are not here yet, so those pics will have to wait. Brian is almost done with my headers!
I figured I would post up as I make progress with some pics (engine out, clutch inspection, parts install, etc.). This will take me a while, but I have all winter, so I'm in no rush.

Wish me luck!!!














A bunch of stuff that I've removed so far:



Here is what it looked like before I started:



Here is where I'm at now:

[dos531]

Sounds like a fun build. Seems like your 400 crank hp is in the ballpark. I know my car made about 330whp when it had a k27. A J&S safeguard would give you some peace of mind especially since you're increasing power and have it apart already. Cheap insurance after all the money you've already spent.

[jwasbury]

You're going to be busy thus winter. Don't worry too much about the absolute hp#...the combination of all this work, both engine and suspension, is going to completely transform your car. Your $hit eating grin is going to get much bigger. Do not get greedy with boost level, and do verify that your distributor functions properly. Check total advance, and check that the timing is properly retarded under boost pressure.

Not sure where in NJ you're located, but if I can offer any tools or moral support do let me know.

[b5aar]

Nice....looks similar to what I was doing last year! no suspension though....

Some random thoughts

Lots of threads on engine drops - make sure you have the jacking/stands height to get the engine clear - dont forget the Bosch multi pin connector to the right of the driverside shock mount

Looks like you've spoken with Chris - TK sent me a "Do all these gaskets/seals when engine is out" package, front rear main seal, oil sender, breather etc

I also replaced the stock injector blocks with TK billets

May need some cams to get to the HP goal - level of difficulty higher

Check/replace engine compartment seal while your in there

Check air box clearance with the IC - may need cone filter

k27 vs LDZ mounting and orientation

Air injection system - leave in or out....

How about an MSD ignition/coil...plug in to your existing harness no cutting...JFairman has some good thread and pics I used

Assuming you have K-Lambda system with oxy sensor....... if keeping.....after reassembly make sure ground wire on inner stud for fan housing is solid....caused all kinds of problems...thanks Ronnie for troubleshooting

The voices in my head have stopped..................Beautiful 930....Have fun

[930/66]

Hi Jeff

Good Luck!

First i have to say the Customer Service from Chris is nice!

I see you have the IC from Chris, maybe you will have the same problems as I with the fitting.

#1 conflict with the air filter box
#2 connection to supplementary air slide wrong
#3 Connection to the turbocharger intercooler welded wrong (can`t close my tailgate)



Ask Chris for a solution he is absolut helpful

[kenikh]

You're on the border of a high performance clutch upgrade. When I did my motor, I ended up with an unbudgeted $2500 surprise. The Sachs BTR clutch and adapter is the only option for high performance engines that retains light pedal effort. Be wary.

[OldSpool87]

Jeff- happy to hear you are making the mods you wanted just a year ago!

I have the black TK IC. It's fantastic and keeps a "stock" feel to the engine bay. You will need to notch the air box or go the cone air filter route. I'll sell you my cone filter if you want it b/c I went the notch route.

Also, my mods are nearly the same. I did include a lightweight pressure plate and Sachs clutch. Big difference in revability (that's a new word).

Props for taking on the drop!

Good luck

Will

[Jeff NJ]

Originally Posted by dos531

Sounds like a fun build. Seems like your 400 crank hp is in the ballpark. I know my car made about 330whp when it had a k27. A J&S safeguard would give you some peace of mind especially since you're increasing power and have it apart already. Cheap insurance after all the money you've already spent.

Thanks!

I'm going to look into the J&S. Probably a dumb question, but would an MSD6AL have a knock sensor and provide similar protection? Or can they be used together? I'm on the fence about MSD...

[Jeff NJ]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

You're going to be busy thus winter. Don't worry too much about the absolute hp#...the combination of all this work, both engine and suspension, is going to completely transform your car. Your $hit eating grin is going to get much bigger. Do not get greedy with boost level, and do verify that your distributor functions properly. Check total advance, and check that the timing is properly retarded under boost pressure.

Not sure where in NJ you're located, but if I can offer any tools or moral support do let me know.

Thanks Jake!
Yeah, I'm not too worried about the actual HP. It's more to validate the gains via the upgrades.
I am thinking either .8 or .9 bar spring. On their website, Tial states to get .3 bar lower than the desired boost when you have aftermarket headers due to lower backpressure. So I guess a .8 spring would really be 1.1bar? Is that correct?

Thanks for the offer. I think I have the right tools (we'll see...), but I do see me picking your brain on occasion. I read your motor rebuild thread and it was great. So much good info in there. I'm hoping I don't need to go that deep. I am in Morris County (probably 45 mins from the Holland Tunnel.)

[Jeff NJ]

Originally Posted by kenikh

You're on the border of a high performance clutch upgrade. When I did my motor, I ended up with an unbudgeted $2500 surprise. The Sachs BTR clutch and adapter is the only option for high performance engines that retains light pedal effort. Be wary.

Yeah, I've already budgeted for a clutch. I'm just waiting to see what I've got in there before I buy anything. It was replaced by the prior owner, but the receipt doesn't state what, exactly was replaced, or what brand it is, so who knows what I've got... Eyes wide open and hoping for the best.

[Jeff NJ]

Originally Posted by b5aar

Nice....looks similar to what I was doing last year! no suspension though....

Some random thoughts

Lots of threads on engine drops - make sure you have the jacking/stands height to get the engine clear - dont forget the Bosch multi pin connector to the right of the driverside shock mount

Looks like you've spoken with Chris - TK sent me a "Do all these gaskets/seals when engine is out" package, front rear main seal, oil sender, breather etc

I also replaced the stock injector blocks with TK billets

May need some cams to get to the HP goal - level of difficulty higher

Check/replace engine compartment seal while your in there

Check air box clearance with the IC - may need cone filter

k27 vs LDZ mounting and orientation

Air injection system - leave in or out....

How about an MSD ignition/coil...plug in to your existing harness no cutting...JFairman has some good thread and pics I used

Assuming you have K-Lambda system with oxy sensor....... if keeping.....after reassembly make sure ground wire on inner stud for fan housing is solid....caused all kinds of problems...thanks Ronnie for troubleshooting

The voices in my head have stopped..................Beautiful 930....Have fun

Lots of great points here! Most of them are already accounted for in my head, but I appreciate all the info and let me know if you think of any other tidbits.

Chris at TK was very helpful. Lots of good tips.
Brian at Rarlyl8 helped me with the k27 mounting.
Engine compartment seal looks fairly good from what I have seen, but will replace if necessary.
Air injection is going.
K-Lambda may be going.
Not replacing cams (this time)
Not sure about MSD. Would it help with my build?

thanks!

[dos531]

Originally Posted by Jeff NJ

Thanks!

I'm going to look into the J&S. Probably a dumb question, but would an MSD6AL have a knock sensor and provide similar protection? Or can they be used together? I'm on the fence about MSD...

As far as I know MSD doesnt offer anything like the J&S in terms of knock control. I think the only knock related item they sell is a sensor which activates a light and makes a noise when knock is detected, whereas the J&S will hear the knock before its even audible and pull the timing on individual cylinders before any damage can occur. They can be used together with the MSD replacing the CDI, but it would be redundant as the J&S offers most of the same features as the MSD. The 6al2 programmable will offer a bit more control over timing since you can create a custom timing curve, but in my opinion the knock control is more important. They both have the ability to pull timing vs boost, which is really helpful. On my car I have the distributor advanced a lot more than factory with the j&s pulling timing at full load. This way I have much more timing off boost which makes it much more responsive in those situations, but still safe at full boost.

I dont work for John at J&S or anything, i'm just really happy with the system on my car so I try to spread the word. I can finally take my eye off the AFR gauge while driving since I know even if there's an issue the J&S will protect my motor. He's very helpful too if you have any questions. I exchanged probably 20 emails with him before I ended up purchasing the safeguard.

[redturbo911]

Nice progress so far. Keep the pictures coming.

[jwasbury]

Jeff,

Couple things...I noted my max boost dropped when I installed higher performance exhaust (mine is an SSI system). Rather than change wastegate springs, I just put in a manual boost controller. The "dial-o-death" knob is in the engine compartment, so I don't have temptation to crank it up as may happen with cockpit adjustability.

Regarding clutch, my car had a basically brand new OE pressure plate and standard Sachs spring center clutch disc. I have no slippage issues, and that's with something around 375 wheel HP. YMMV.

For brain pickin' just PM me sometime and I'll give you my cell number. If you're ever near to Jersey City, look me up. I'll show you my little workshop and current project:

[krasuskyp]

nice Jeff - way to jump on in there

as was said, what you've got planned will literally transform your car from awesome to uber - drivability increases immeasurably (regardless of dyno measurements), and your satisfaction / gratification will be immense

best is the sense you'll establish with your car - you'll learn much about it, and you - good stuff

I def yoinked ^said^ Bosch multipin connector by the inner / left shock tower, got caught up in the haste of trying to have 1000hands @ the same time whilst disconnecting / lowering things

my thoughts were largely covered above, but random thoughtlessness:

engine sound pad scrape-age and/or replacement is good while yer in thar - yers looks as insipid as mine

as is engine seal - you'll be surprised how brittle/dry you'll find yers is, all over but most especialliest by the turbo - replace it

recondition yer tin too a bit whilst it's out - check for rust by turbo

def consider cams - you're right there, doin valves, just a special tool (Ronknees' nickname?) away from 'em - why not. My SC's really changed the overall character of my powerband, almost want to say the gearing feel too... lovin it.

plus

you get to attend to some good leakprone sealage too whilst at it... chain covers, chain box, cam ends, etc. (and be like me and have something still leaking now afterward - awesome!)

RSR rocker seals - $80 well spent

do the rear breather coupler hose whilst in thar, and any / every seal you can get to... oil cooler, oil pump, oil tstat, turbo / muffler / wastegate, etc.

I v-banded my turbo / muffler flanges whilst out - non-eggzachry lined up tips (and tits too, for that matter) ultrawicked urk me... v-banding is smart easy cheap flexibility

lube yer throttle linkage thoroughly whilst you have access to it

new vacuum hosiery

if you do go cone filter, DO add a catchcan - venting to atm FTMFL!!! (reference the Bongresin in my Cabin Fever thread - Just Say No)

invest in Massenguil and rags and douche the beejeebus out of everything

mebbe set aside some polishing time - I love me some nekkid aluminum smiling at me, I'm not a powdercoater... au naturale baby

change gear oil, trans tailshaft seal (mine was leaking into the tunnel box pretty visibly @ 60k)

jah... clutchslippage... I'm there now... 20k on OE spring centered clutch then increasing to ~420+chp has mine slippin somewhat...

by the book / read it

Lookin forward to updates! Def take Jakester up on his offer fer tewls / wisdom / etc... he's encyclopedic with his P-wrench knowledge and assistance, and always is a voice of blunt realism

[krasuskyp]

ps. I went MSD... seemed to make good sense

pps... remove / store all OE parts to preserve value

or sell them all for the difference in value you'll not receive later down the road

was a no brainer for me... half my mods cost me literally zero... hmmm

plus

knowin my bits were doin someone out there some good (errrrrrr) rather than collecting mold 'n rust on the shelf? Priceless. Just sayin...

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by krasuskyp

just a special tool (Ronknees' nickname?)

Paula, I've got yer "special tool" right , bub!

Originally Posted by krasuskyp

set aside some polishing time

Two minutes, three times daily = Paul's errrr ummmm "polishing" regimen!!!


Jeff, sweet project(s), and like other's have said, when you next drive the car, you'll be saying "stock is fer Paul's Christmas gifts"!!!

[b5aar]

The MSD is good for availability and cheaper replacement. 30 k miles without problem on mine. Some opinions on bigger spark gap etc. I have the programmable for some 2D mapping in the future. Lot of lower end gains based on others experience. Havnt had a chance to try yet.
I like my klambda....runs cleaner and little better gas mileage when I'm not hammerin on it.
As Paul said, cam upgrade is nice..better off boost driveability and more power everywhere.

TK set me up with a KEP pressure plate and SACHs organic disc...little more pedal effort and grabbiness but lot of grip and no issues after 10k+ miles

In the slippery slope category.. This might be the time to go through the gear box..

Also take extra care when mating the gearbox to the engine on reassembly...make sure the release fork pivots in back of and sits on the throwout bearing tabs correctly

[Jeff NJ]

So the motor is out!! Went very smooth, mostly because of all my prep work that I only would have known about from here. Thanks for all that have posted engine drop threads in the past!!








So my first order of business was to check the clutch since that was the primary reason for the engine pull. Got the trans separated without issue. Clutch fork looked good. Pressure plate looked OK to me.





Time to pull the clutch to see what that looked like. I'm not sure, but I think this may be an issue...






So I'm quite shocked that I was able to drive this at all with the clutch the way it is. I already budgeted for a new clutch, so not a big deal. Suggestions for a new clutch? I want stock clutch pedal feel if possible. I don't track the car and I don't see me going over 400 hp at the flywheel. (famous last words)

[kenikh]

At that power, if you want stock pedal feel, my previous warning applies...Sachs BTR setup.