"Hot" cam choice for small port 3.0 with SSIs.

[QueWhy]

In an effort to avoid the slippery slope and preserve some capital I'd like to explore some rebuild options that are limited by my current intake and exhaust.

The car in question is a 1982 US spec SC.

Small 34mm port heads with soon to be installed Weber 40 IDAs. I'm not opposed to doing some work on the heads(valve guides will need to be done anyway) provided the juice is worth the squeeze and the money wouldn't be better spent somewhere else. On the exhaust side I have SSI heat exchangers and M&K sport 2-1 muffler. These are the things I'd like to keep.

The goal is pistons(close to stock compression, single plug) and cams that are able to take advantage of the carbs. Not a track car but I would like a bit more hot rod feel and power higher in the rev range, the car is mostly used for attacking back roads and mountain passes. I love the sound of the engine above 5,000rpm but not much is happening up there power wise.

What would the "hottest" cam I could run giving the weber 40s, SSIs and not wanting to start changing rods, rod bolts, valve springs, retainers, rockers, etc, etc?

Am I limiting myself too much by being unwilling to change the carbs, exhaust, or port sizes?

Again, I'm desperately trying to avoid a soup to nuts rebuild. I'd like to make the engine incrementally better and save the big build and big bill until after the kids are out of the house.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by QueWhy

In an effort to avoid the slippery slope and preserve some capital I'd like to explore some rebuild options that are limited by my current intake and exhaust.

The car in question is a 1982 US spec SC.

Small 34mm port heads with soon to be installed Weber 40 IDAs. I'm not opposed to doing some work on the heads(valve guides will need to be done anyway) provided the juice is worth the squeeze and the money wouldn't be better spent somewhere else. On the exhaust side I have SSI heat exchangers and M&K sport 2-1 muffler. These are the things I'd like to keep.

The goal is pistons(close to stock compression, single plug) and cams that are able to take advantage of the carbs. Not a track car but I would like a bit more hot rod feel and power higher in the rev range, the car is mostly used for attacking back roads and mountain passes. I love the sound of the engine above 5,000rpm but not much is happening up there power wise.

What would the "hottest" cam I could run giving the weber 40s, SSIs and not wanting to start changing rods, rod bolts, valve springs, retainers, rockers, etc, etc?

Am I limiting myself too much by being unwilling to change the carbs, exhaust, or port sizes?

Again, I'm desperately trying to avoid a soup to nuts rebuild. I'd like to make the engine incrementally better and save the big build and big bill until after the kids are out of the house.

9.5:1, MOD "S" cams and a rethink on the M&K muffler. Historically the M&K sport mufflers have had a terrible harmonic at 5000 and a cost of about 15hp throughout the range.

[Zuffenwerker]

Gt2 102 grind from DRC

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

9.5:1, MOD "S" cams and a rethink on the M&K muffler. Historically the M&K sport mufflers have had a terrible harmonic at 5000 and a cost of about 15hp throughout the range.

I hadn’t heard that about the M&K, too bad because I like the sound and love the weight savings.

I was thinking DC-40, so it’s good to know I’m on the right track.

Originally Posted by Zuffenwerker

Gt2 102 grind from DRC

I’ve seen this mentioned a few times in my research. Seems like a small step down from the DC-40.

[mikedsilva]

Yep, I'd go the MOD S style cam... and 9.5-10.0 comp. I think with the bigger cam your dynamic compression will be a little lower so you should be safe from knock.
With the cam advanced, torque down low was impressive. And pulled all the way past 7 happily.

I've not had success with M&K mufflers... very limiting on an engine that flows well. Something custom and simple works better. Mine used a GT3 muffler.

[icarp]

How many horse power do you need at the crank to have fun?
If you are guessing , then you probably do not need as much as you think.
I have 230hp at the crank and I can smoke just about any other similar displacement car,
including a 2018 civic type r and a wrx sti 2018 in the 1/4 mile . 14.02 sec
Theses specs with stock cis pistons and 34 mm ports

I do not like the Gt2 102 grind from DRC, it is a cam for your grandmother.
Mike I don't think you liked it either .

Ian

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by icarp

How many horse power do you need at the crank to have fun?
If you are guessing , then you probably do not need as much as you think.
I have 230hp at the crank and I can smoke just about any other car,
including a 2018 civic type r and a wrx sti 2018 in the 1/4 mile . 14.02 sec

Ian

Need or want? The car doesn’t need anymore horsepower and that’s not really what I’m chasing. The goal is to take advantage of what the carbs can offer and make the car perform better above 5-5500rpm. I was reading a post by the late great Gredy Clay and he said the stock 3.0l valve train was good for 7300 on every shift. I’d like to take advantage of that by having an engine that does more than make additional noise between 5-7000. Provided the 34mm intake ports, 40mm carbs and SSIs aren’t going to hold me back, if so I’d like see what I can do within those constraints and identify the limiting factor.

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

Yep, I'd go the MOD S style cam... and 9.5-10.0 comp. I think with the bigger cam your dynamic compression will be a little lower so you should be safe from knock.
With the cam advanced, torque down low was impressive. And pulled all the way past 7 happily.

I've not had success with M&K mufflers... very limiting on an engine that flows well. Something custom and simple works better. Mine used a GT3 muffler.

I’ve just started looking through your thread about exhaust. Sad to hear about the M&K, is it the same for all their models? I have an early 2-1 sport and it’s hard to think something that weighs <15lbs is causing that much restriction. I had a Dansk 2-2 and it was over twice as heavy.

[917_Langheck]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

Historically the M&K sport mufflers have had a terrible harmonic at 5000 and a cost of about 15hp throughout the range.

Anyone have a graph of that? I have not seen one, and "historically" is a loaded term, as it is known that M&Ks have gone through iterations to address "issues" such as drone. Maybe Brian will weigh in. (I am not an M&K shill, but stating -15hp across the range necessitates some documentation. I'd rather not spend the $700+ if that is a fact).

[Trackrash]

I second Gt2 102 grind from DRC. Tons of midrange torque and response. Unless you are wanting power above 6500 rpm the GT2 will do the job. I was buzzing my limiter at 7500 rpm last sunday at an AX with those cams.

Also in order to go above 6800 rpm you will need racing valve springs with any hot grind.

If it was me, I would open up the intake ports to something like 36-38mm. Not hard to do. Match with the manifolds. Otherwise your power will drop off above say 5500 with 34mm intakes.

Oh, and by the way, I tried a M&K a couple of weeks ago. The drone was SO bad I took it off right away. Did not seem to hurt my power, though.

[Jeff Alton]

Why not email John at DRC???? Ask him what he thinks.....

It is what he does. We rely on him often. And he has made a couple of grinds specifically for our builds and we have been very pleased.

Cheers

[H-viken]

Originally Posted by QueWhy

I’ve just started looking through your thread about exhaust. Sad to hear about the M&K, is it the same for all their models? I have an early 2-1 sport and it’s hard to think something that weighs <15lbs is causing that much restriction. I had a Dansk 2-2 and it was over twice as heavy.

How is weight related to flow?

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by H-viken

How is weight related to flow?

This is true. I guess in a broad sense, one might think that "less metal" = "less dense".. but we know that isn't the case!

In my case, the M&K droned so bad, it gave me a terrible headache. First time I'd ever experienced this... weirdly, other people claim it's the best thing they've ever had and that their cars don't drone... I cannot begin to explain the difference in results...

Brian tried to help by making me another set of tips with baffles in them. They did reduce the drone but the flow was so heavily impacted, the power was quite low.

I sold the muffler to someone who ended up enjoying it, with no drone!

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

Why not email John at DRC???? Ask him what he thinks.....

It is what he does. We rely on him often. And he has made a couple of grinds specifically for our builds and we have been very pleased.

Cheers

I don’t want to waste his time. If I was ready to order a set of cams right away that would be a different story but I’ve got a few more ducks to get in a row before that point.

I started this thread with the hopes of getting some recommendations from people that have been down this path before and educating myself so when it’s time to talk to someone like John or if a great deal pops up in the classifieds I can be a more informed consumer.

Thanks to everyone for their help so far.

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

This is true. I guess in a broad sense, one might think that "less metal" = "less dense".. but we know that isn't the case!

In my case, the M&K droned so bad, it gave me a terrible headache. First time I'd ever experienced this... weirdly, other people claim it's the best thing they've ever had and that their cars don't drone... I cannot begin to explain the difference in results...

Brian tried to help by making me another set of tips with baffles in them. They did reduce the drone but the flow was so heavily impacted, the power was quite low.

I sold the muffler to someone who ended up enjoying it, with no drone!

It was just an observation made when I had both mufflers in front of me. The M&K is so light it can easily be picked up and carried around with one hand. I doesn’t seem like there could be any baffles in it compared to the much heavier Dansk.

It’s a 2 to 1 so there isn’t an issue with drone. I love the muffler but not if it’s costing 15hp vs ???

I wish Harry would return to the thread to give a little more insight.

When it’s all said and done I’ll get the car tuned on a dyno and maybe I can take the muffler off between runs to get some actual data.

[G450X]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

9.5:1, MOD "S" cams and a rethink on the M&K muffler. Historically the M&K sport mufflers have had a terrible harmonic at 5000 and a cost of about 15hp throughout the range.

Henry,

Not to hijack the thread, but what exhaust do you recommend for a SC 3.0 mild mod short stroke (Max Moritz 9:8:1) with a slight cam bump (M1) with SSI’s and early (‘79) CIS?

I assume a 15 hp exhaust bump should benefit the original post question since that 3.0 has carbs and he’s looking for cam recommendations.

The worst part of my ‘82 SC is that it “dies” at a little over 5k RPM - heck, my high mile Benz W210 OM606 diesel revs higher!

[Zuffenwerker]

Originally Posted by QueWhy

I don’t want to waste his time. If I was ready to order a set of cams right away that would be a different story but I’ve got a few more ducks to get in a row before that point.

I started this thread with the hopes of getting some recommendations from people that have been down this path before and educating myself so when it’s time to talk to someone like John or if a great deal pops up in the classifieds I can be a more informed consumer.

Thanks to everyone for their help so far.

I have almost your exact same build in my car. John recommend the gt2 102 when I gave him these specs. Highly recommend.

Daniel

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by QueWhy

I don’t want to waste his time. If I was ready to order a set of cams right away that would be a different story but I’ve got a few more ducks to get in a row before that point.

I started this thread with the hopes of getting some recommendations from people that have been down this path before and educating myself so when it’s time to talk to someone like John or if a great deal pops up in the classifieds I can be a more informed consumer.

Thanks to everyone for their help so far.

You would not be wasting his time. Its what he does. You may end up getting the cams and rockers ground by him in the future. If you do, answering your email questions are a great use of his time.... He is very knowledgeable, and helpful.

And despite what you may have read/heard about lead times, the last few sets we had John do were back to us before we needed them.


Cheers

[snbush67]

Call and ask John if the GT2-108 is right for your build. My engine is coming apart soon and I'm trying some top secret cams and my GT2-108’s are going to be available. Less than 10K miles.

[RSstop]

Chassis Dyno graph shows a power loss centered at 5200rpm that may be what Henry is describing.
Engine is 3.2 SS
120/104 cams, 46mm pmo carb tuning, or M&K 2 in 2 out.
Could be one or a combination of all above.

Curious to hear others experiences with those cams with other combinations. They are very similar to DC 60, GE 60.
The funny thing is everyone loved the feel of this engine. The kick from 5400 to 7000rpm was impressive but data would show it could be much faster eliminating that dip.
Wish I had the opportunity to explore some changes.