Replace waterpump at 40K or wait for noises?

[MikenOH]

Had a recommendation to replace the 987 water pump at 40K rather than wait for problems; any merit to this?

[randy_k]

I thought is was about 40k to 50k for the 986 I own. But don't remember. Do yourself a big favor and put the LN Engineering 160 degree thermostat in it.
Randy
Edited because the link I posted in my reply was a pay to play link.

[thstone]

There is always some merit in preventing a possible problem. Hard to know if this one is worth it or not.

I have 98,000 miles on my original water pump (and IMS and everything else) and sleep fine.

[MikenOH]

Originally Posted by randy_k

I thought is was about 40k to 50k for the 986 I own. But don't remember. Do yourself a big favor and put the LN Engineering 160 degree thermostat in it.
Randy
Edited because the link I posted in my reply was a pay to play link.

That's on the schedule; what's the biggest benefit that you've noticed from doing it?

[s_wilwerding]

There are numerous other posts about the thermostat, with people falling on both sides. The people who like them like that the engine runs at a lower temperature, and they believe that leads to longer life. The people on the other side state the engine runs at a lower temperature than it was designed to, which leads to higher emissions and dirtier oil, and may not prolong the life of the engine.

I fall into the second camp, but if you do a search, you'll see plenty of pros and cons of either approach.

[The Radium King]

re the water pump, there is nothing in the porsche maintenance schedule that i could find about replacing the water pump (inspect yes, replace no).

what some folks are finding is that the plastic impeller is starting to deteriorate and send small bits of plastic through the cooling system, which blocks important passages and can restrict cooling to important places. given that it is a plastic deterioration issue, wear is tied more to age than mileage. as such, jake raby is recommending replacement every three years to preempt this failure mode.

this is also talk about moving to metal impellers (some non-oem replacement pumps have metal impellers) but apparently the concern is that, if there is a bearing failure, that impeller can chew-up the engine.

[ronster]

No offense to Jake Raby but he is in business to make money and his recommendation is no more or less significant than Porsche not having a water pump replacement as a maintenance item. My water pump went 84K miles before the tell tale bearing squeal started and I drove it to the shop that replaced it without damage. If you do replace it do use an OEM pump as the third party one's are not worth the few dollars you will save. As far as the LN 160 deg. thermostat I'm also on the side of keeping the 180 deg. as all cars are designed to operate at a specific warmup and operating temp to reduce emissions and to keep combustion at a maximum so deposits don't build up.

[mikefocke]

Jake doesn't make much replacing water pumps nor do many of them, his recommendation was offered for free to folks who wanted to do their own or have their local mechanic do it and wondered at the suggested interval and if there was a difference in the quality of the parts. Pretty disinterested recommendation IMHO and comes from someone who has been inside a lot of engines, both failing and not.

Now having said that, it is always a personal call how much to spend on preventative maintenance and when to swap out a wear part that is seemingly doing fine for a new one (with the added risk that any work has of introducing a new problem). You can go broke doing preventative maintenance or improvements and the next buyer probably won't give the cost back to you. Would you rather buy a car with a whole long list of fixes and upgrades or one still running what the factory put there. People fall into two camps.

[The Radium King]

i wouldn't put too much faith in the porsche maintenance schedule. it was developed when the boxster first came out and, in the case of the 986, has not changed since. the boxster was a new car with a new engine, and there is no way that porsche could have anticipated any of the preventative maintenance issues that may arisen over the 15 years the car has been on the market. neither can you expect porsche to update their maintenance schedule to reflect these findings, as that could be seen as an assumption of liability. aos, rms, ims have all seen upgrades in reponse to an unacceptable failure rate, yet the maintenance scheudule for the old cars hasn't changed.

so, you can close your eyes to the fact that there may be preventative maintenace issues not initially recognised by porsche, or subsequently acknowledged, or you can be proactive, do your research and weigh potential damage (ie destuction of engine) again cost to preemptively address.

[The Radium King]

another quick point. my car is a 2000, and i really notice how the plastic is deteriorating on all the various trim bits i've got. so, i've kinda made it my mission to either replace or get as much of the plastic out of my engine as possible - chain ramps, oil baffle, water pump. i'm already getting a significant amount of it in my oil filter, so perhaps i can assume it'll get rid of itself all on it's own if i wait long enough ...

[ronster]

Not to belabor a point but at what point do you draw the line at "preventative maintenance" and throwing your money away needlessly replacing parts that still have a lot of miles left on them. When I first got my Boxster it was 10 years old with 74K miles on it and the first "Porsche trained" mechanic I took it to told me I needed to replace about $5K in parts because they would be worn out by then and it was good preventative maintenance to do so. I decided to wait and so far, over 20K miles so far, the only thing I've replaced was the water pump and it was not on his list, the rest is working just fine on the street, on the track and AX. As someone here pointed out it is a matter of personal preference (or paranoia) to preventatively replace parts and honestly is that a decision you want others to make for you?

[The Radium King]

i totally hear you. for me it's cost benefit analysis: consequence vs cost to implement. if a shock abosorber wears out before you replace it no biggie. cost to replace - quite high, with alignment, etc., included. consequence of driving with a bad shock? nada. what does porsche tell you? periodcially inspect your shocks. makes sense to wait.

if a chain ramp fails completely, you should get a cel telling you about crazy cam deviation before your engine fails. cost to replace - quite high. consequence? in a perfect world, just a cel. what does porsche say? bring your car to a mechanic if you get a cel. makes sense to wait, but now there is a bit of potential drama, as the ramps are impossible to inspect and porsche didn't anticipate them to fail like they are failing. me, i'll wait and take the chance.

if a water pump grenades plastic into your engine it could easily die with no indicator beforehand. consequences? $15k at a dealer. cost to address beforehand - $200. what does porsche tell you to do? periodically inspect your water pump. will a water pump inspection show you the condition of the impeller? no. if you remove it to inspect it, does it make sense to put a used $200 part back in? not to me. so, makes sense to me to replace it on a periodic basis.

fear mongering? perhaps, but from experience i have seen the pieces of chain ramp in my oil filter and know that porsche did not use lifetime plastic parts in these engines. i do have an indicator for failing chain ramp (cel, oil filter contents) so i'm not about to spend the $6k to open my engine. I have no indicator of the state of my water pump impeller, and it's only $200 and an afternoon, so i replace.

[ronster]

If you can do your own work (and if I could do mine) I would probably be pickier about what I replace under "preventative maintenance" but I'm paying someone else to do my work and my water pump replacement was just shy of $900 over half of that was labor. Keep in mind that when you replace the pump you also have to replace coolant and bleed the system (possibly replace thermostat and serpentine belt). I've never heard of, nor read about, a water pump grenading and destroying a motor. Typically the bearing starts to go and creates a small amount of play in the beginning that creates the squeal that is the tell tale noise that tells you you need a new one. If you have plastic particles in your oil you are beyond preventative maintenance and into repair/ replace but the poster here has not indicated that is the situation only that someone (we also don't know who, friend, mechanic, guy on the street?) has indicated it should be replaced under "preventative maintenance." If you go by that you might as well replace the IMS, RMS, fuel pump, alternator, power steering pump, AC pump, MAF, AOS, secondary air system, O2 sensors and ad infinitum because they have 40K miles on them and at some point they are going to fail. I certainly wouldn't rely on the various opinions from a site to determine what is best for my car but I would rely on the opinion of a mechanic I had developed a relationship with over time that I knew had the best interest of me and my vehicle, knew my driving style and wasn't out trying to drum up business replacing parts that are still good.

[WhipE350]

I changed mine at 55k as preventative maintenance and the one i took out was like new. I only noticed two things, the original one would spin easier and made a slight sound. I was going to sell it since it was in perfect condition, however decided to keep in case I get another Boxster.
It is really interesting how some of these cars go well over a 100k without anything and others have issues. I decided to change mine because I didn't want to be driving in 100 degree weather 150 miles from home and it to go on me. Here are the pictures:

[randy_k]

Originally Posted by s_wilwerding

There are numerous other posts about the thermostat, with people falling on both sides. The people who like them like that the engine runs at a lower temperature, and they believe that leads to longer life. The people on the other side state the engine runs at a lower temperature than it was designed to, which leads to higher emissions and dirtier oil, and may not prolong the life of the engine.

I fall into the second camp, but if you do a search, you'll see plenty of pros and cons of either approach.

I believe it was designed to operate within an operating temperature, high low. Not at it's limit consistently. Mine barely gets above 180 even at idle for 45 minutes stopped on black top in 90 degree ambient temps. Another thing is. Remember, when the fans come on. They're playing catch up. One caveat. I also went to an "S" Oil cooler. The biggest enemy of oil is, Heat.
As far as designed to. I'm sure it wasn't designed for the IMS bearing to lose control and implode the engine in under 10k miles either. But it happens.
Like Whip, The one I took out, looked fine. But there were scars in the intake to the engine side. That a previous one had the impeller let go.
Like the IMS bearing. You may or may not get a warning by sound. Or it could just go boom.
If you have to inspect it. Crap, it's off. You have done the labor. Replace the thing. I hate doing things twice!!!
Just my obersavtions. Randy

[Doug&Julie]

Soooo....what does a failing water pump sound like?

[ronster]

Originally Posted by Doug&Julie

Soooo....what does a failing water pump sound like?

High pitched squeal impossible to miss on a Boxster because it is right behind you.

[turboflyer]

Originally Posted by WhipE350

I changed mine at 55k as preventative maintenance and the one i took out was like new. I only noticed two things, the original one would spin easier and made a slight sound. I was going to sell it since it was in perfect condition, however decided to keep in case I get another Boxster.
It is really interesting how some of these cars go well over a 100k without anything and others have issues. I decided to change mine because I didn't want to be driving in 100 degree weather 150 miles from home and it to go on me. Here are the pictures:

Are these both OEMPorsche parts?

[Doug&Julie]

Originally Posted by ronster

High pitched squeal impossible to miss on a Boxster because it is right behind you.

Thanks. I ask because I hear a faint noise but it's not right behind me and not really obvious. I'll investigate further...

[gsmiller]

Originally Posted by Doug&Julie

Soooo....what does a failing water pump sound like?

Yep, high pitched squeal. When mine failed, I could see puffs of steam coming from the passenger side engine vent because it was throwing small amounts of coolant out from the bearing area onto the belt and hot engine. Oh and when I got home and coolant poured out all over my driveway from the area when I removed the coolant cap (realeasing the vacuum), it was a pretty dead giveaway.

My experience was pretty stressful. I had owned the car for 24 hours when it failed. I didn't know a whole lot about cars and of course was freaked out about what was wrong with the car I'd just bought, but the little dealer I picked it up from was really reasonable and paid for a new pump. Since learning to work on this car was a goal when I got it, I didn't mind doing the work myself. It was actually pretty fun. And if I was able to handle the job myself as my first real car repair, I think most people out there can knock this one out in a couple hours.