F1: 2019 thread

[cairns]

At first I thought the penalty was excessive, but then I saw additional information. Vettel was in the wrong, he looked in his mirrors, then went right towards Hamilton, https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/reason-vettel-punished-canada/4461461/.

Sux that Vettel had to crack under pressure. I think Hamilton had more pace than Vettel and if he had gone by, it would have been game over for Ferrari.

I agree. Looked at it again last night.

[ryanjboutin]

Didn’t Hamilton do the same thing to Verstappen in Monaco?
No penalty for Hamilton.

The Hamilton fans in here are very obvious.

[J-Mac]

Originally Posted by ryanjboutin

Didn’t Hamilton do the same thing to Verstappen in Monaco?
No penalty for Hamilton.

The Hamilton fans in here are very obvious.

Eh, no. Verstappen hit Hamilton in Monaco. Very different situation. And not particularly a Hamilton fan.

[Iciclehead]

Originally Posted by chapo

F1 used to be about men driving their machines to the limit, and the great ones beyond the limit. Doesn’t happen anymore. Too much monitoring and worrying, too many decisions made by engineers and directors. There are no more heroic drives through the pack or in the rain. The drivers would like to see this changed. The drivers in days gone by were truly heroic in the efforts, not now .

I am truly mixed about the penalty, but would add the observation that in former days, the cars were much less safe and the drivers knew that...they knew that if they crunched into an opponent, chances are both of them would be in a ball of flame or crushed in the accident and so gave some leeway.

One of the unexpected consequences of the very safe vehicles we see now is that there is zero fear of an accident, the chances of consequence to human life is quite low, which makes them more willing to hold the line, run the risk of impact than in former years.

I don't like races decided by penalty....let them race is my point of view, but then again I also want to go back to far fewer rules, more engine choices (get rid of these crazy energy recovery methods), get rid of most aero and just let the best car/driver win.

Dennis

[RonDent]

If a driver leaves the racing surface and re-enter is such a way that a competitor must aggressively brake or steer to avoid contact, that is an unsafe re-enter.
That being said, stewards generally won't impose a penalty if doing so, the penalty is greater than the infraction.

I'm not a steward, I'm a starter, but in my opinion, there shouldn't have been a penalty.

[astrochex]

Originally Posted by Iciclehead

I am truly mixed about the penalty, but would add the observation that in former days, the cars were much less safe and the drivers knew that...they knew that if they crunched into an opponent, chances are both of them would be in a ball of flame or crushed in the accident and so gave some leeway.

Dennis

David Hobbs was talking about this exactly in his Dinner With Racers podcast episode. You would not risk intentionally causing a collision in the old days.

[Scott Douglas]

All you guys saying he made a second steering input to go wide are ASSUMING he had the car under control by that time. I don't think he had the car under control until his tires were past the white line and he started to accelerate.
For you racers out there, what do you do when the guy in front of you goes off course and is obviously not going to be able to make the turn in the normal fashion?
He (Vet) obviously can't apply the brakes to any effect while still on the grass and has to have room to settle the car to regain control. Do you, as a following car, just charge ahead risking being taken out by the out of control car ahead of you?

[s_morrison57]

It was a terrible out come and I hope this mistake can be corrected under appeal.

The rendition of our national anthem was the worst I've ever heard.

It was a wasted Sunday.

[Rtrorkt]

VET paid the price for his prior mistakes and aggressive moves prior to this incident. Stewards may have been swayed by VET's intentional hit on HAM in Baku or his propensity recently to make mistakes and be heavily criticized. This was one more error forced by an epic drive by HAM to make up 5 seconds after the pit stop. He was running VET down and VET knew it. Personally my first reaction was to conclude VET turned right to pinch HAM and be sure he maintained the place. Had this been anywhere with tarmac runoff, HAM would have gotten by and walked away.

And I am not a HAM fan. If I had to pick a driver it would be RIC

[dennis in se pa]

This "incident" was what people who don't sit down to pee call "racing". A 5 second penalty was not called for. Sh-t happens.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

All you guys saying he made a second steering input to go wide are ASSUMING he had the car under control by that time. I don't think he had the car under control until his tires were past the white line and he started to accelerate.
For you racers out there, what do you do when the guy in front of you goes off course and is obviously not going to be able to make the turn in the normal fashion?
He (Vet) obviously can't apply the brakes to any effect while still on the grass and has to have room to settle the car to regain control. Do you, as a following car, just charge ahead risking being taken out by the out of control car ahead of you?

Vettle was a passenger going across the grass, and his tires were coated in grass and dirt. Sticky rubber will pick up a lot of grass. He got back on track, and was steering and braking all he could. The second steering input looks like trying to correct for oversteer and avoid spinning. If he had spun he likely would have taken Hamilton out with him.

All in all, I see a racing incident. Pushing to 100% and not to the 99.9% limit of control.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by RonDent

If a driver leaves the racing surface and re-enter is such a way that a competitor must aggressively brake or steer to avoid contact, that is an unsafe re-enter.
That being said, stewards generally won't impose a penalty if doing so, the penalty is greater than the infraction.

I'm not a steward, I'm a starter, but in my opinion, there shouldn't have been a penalty.

Not if the action caused a possible shift in positions between any drivers involved. Now, we will never know if Hamilton could have/would have passed Vettel during the incident if there was another 3 feet of room. But knowing Ham, he would have given it a shot and he was denied that given his superb ability to preserve.

As Toto Wolff said, "No one will ever be 100% correct...." (speaking of the stewards)

Also, and I can't remember exactly what Wolff said in reply to the main commentator, but he handed him his ass.

[chapo]

Google Arnoux Villenueve battle . 1979 French Grand Prix. That will never happen again with these rules. And it was for second place. Not one complaint from any of them after, just hard racing.

[Jims5543]

I feel like F1 is turning into WWF.

I still do not believe that Mercedes were that slow around the track, I think this was done on purpose to create interest in the race.

When Hamilton asked for more power he ran up on Vettel like he was a back marker. Knowing he did not have to pass, he just cruised behind him 0.8 seconds behind.

What a joke.

I am not buying this sudden loss of Mercedes pace, it is a ruse to keep people watching.

That penalty was BS, any one who has any track experience knows that off could have resulted in a visit with the wall, Hamilton was an idiot to try to pass at that moment, he was forcing an accident, Sebastian clearly had no control of the car after it left the grass until it finally grabbed.

What a BS penalty even the Sky announcers were amazed and they are biased Hamilton fans.

F1 has turned Nascar boys, it seems like it is scripted now.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Sure Hamilton could pass, all it takes is one screw up from the guy in front of him.
Vettel chokes when he's up front, not the first time, won't be the last time.

To finish first, first you have to finish.
In this case he nearly didn't even finish.

and Hamilton chokes when chasing someone faster, how many times did Hamilton lock up at the hairpin, I stopped counting at 4 times.

The king of choke Sunday was Hamilton.

He is lucky his car practically drives itself, Mercedes should had dominated all weekend, one has to wonder what forces were at play to quell the dominance.

Maybe Liberty Media asked them to make this weekend interesting.


From a mile away I can see, Hamilton is winning WDC, Bottas is second, Mercedes is WCC and there will be some bones tossed to fans for the rest of the season to keep the fans interested. I hear Hulk Hogan is going to make a showing at the America race.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Not if the action caused a possible shift in positions between any drivers involved. Now, we will never know if Hamilton could have/would have passed Vettel during the incident if there was another 3 feet of room. But knowing Ham, he would have given it a shot and he was denied that given his superb ability to preserve.

As Toto Wolff said, "No one will ever be 100% correct...." (speaking of the stewards)

Also, and I can't remember exactly what Wolff said in reply to the main commentator, but he handed him his ass.

What we got from Toto was "virtue signaling". "It's only RIGHT". Mercedes lobbied for the penalty and got rewarded for their efforts.
It would have been the height of hypocrisy to then mollify the decision.

[cairns]

and Hamilton chokes when chasing someone faster, how many times did Hamilton lock up at the hairpin, I stopped counting at 4 times.

Oh please. Who couldn't keep his car on the track and who could?

[svandamme]

+1

[Turbo_pro]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

What we got from Toto was "virtue signaling". "It's only RIGHT". Mercedes lobbied for the penalty and got rewarded for their efforts.
It would have been the height of hypocrisy to then mollify the decision.

^^^^^^This ^^^^^^
There is no chance the stewards penalize Vettel without pressure from Mercedes.
The real whining started on the Mercedes pit wall.

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally Posted by Jims5543

I feel like F1 is turning into WWF.

I still do not believe that Mercedes were that slow around the track, I think this was done on purpose to create interest in the race.

When Hamilton asked for more power he ran up on Vettel like he was a back marker. Knowing he did not have to pass, he just cruised behind him 0.8 seconds behind.

What a joke.

I am not buying this sudden loss of Mercedes pace, it is a ruse to keep people watching.

That penalty was BS, any one who has any track experience knows that off could have resulted in a visit with the wall, Hamilton was an idiot to try to pass at that moment, he was forcing an accident, Sebastian clearly had no control of the car after it left the grass until it finally grabbed.

What a BS penalty even the Sky announcers were amazed and they are biased Hamilton fans.

F1 has turned Nascar boys, it seems like it is scripted now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBYHY4SKa3o