Not sure I know how to buy a new car anymore

[Racerbvd]

I was looking at new Suburbans to replace my 20 year old 2500 4X4, OUCH!!!!
I'm just going paint mine and keep her forevermore.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by cabmando

And I would have said "I'll stop by on my way home in my new car." A lot of car salesmen don't get people like me. I'm not into games. I'm not giving you a deposit to "show I'm serious" I'm paying cash... yeah... I'm serious. I play by simple rules. Give me your rock bottom best price. If you have the lowest price, you win.

I'm in sales. I get the game. When a customer tells me they've been shopping and can buy the same machine I have for less I ask them "why were we talking then?" Or when a customer tells me the other guy's number I typically give them my advertised price because I'm not getting in a game where the customer is showing the competition my number. Maybe I'm a bit different than most but because I'm in sales I tend to keep things fair. I figure anyone can beat a price if they know what the price is.
I have on several occasions had callers tell me they could buy a machine for significantly less than what I'm asking for my machine. Sometimes the number they throw out is below what i have in my equipment. I'm quick to tell them, you better go buy it, because if I find it you won't get the chance to. NOTHING puts a smile on my face more than having a guy call me a few days after saying he could find one cheaper to check on my machine and it's sold to someone else.

Moral to the story? Don't bull**** the salesman and be fair by not showing the other salesmen the numbers from other dealers. Let them know you're going to buy either from them or the person with the best deal. Sometimes the best deal isn't the lowest dollar purchase. Sometimes it's oil changes and tire rotations. It might be some kind of extended warranty plan thrown in if you're buying used.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Same here. I normally don’t buy new, the last one was a Mazda5 in 2014. Called every dealership within a 300 mile radius that had our exact spec and color, told them that I was a cash buyer interested in stock number Xxxxx and would travel up to 300 miles for the best price. Give me your lowest cash price, and I’ll purchase from the dealer who offers me the best deal. About half waffled and tried to BS and waste my time, so they were out. Best deal by far was from a Mazda dealer in the KC area, so they got the sale. Absolutely the most painless and easy dealership transaction I have ever had, start to finish.

I've read stories about people emailing a bunch of dealers for the lowest price, etc. Mostly here. I guess things have changed quite a bit in the years since I sold cars w the advent of the internet, obviously, but also in the relationship between invoice and actual price dealers pay for cars. They can now make $$ on cars selling them "for invoice."

Anyone can beat anyone else's price, if they are willing to make nothing on the vehicle. As a salesman in those days, we only got paid a small percentage of the dealership's stated profit on the car, so selling a car for invoice or close would make me nothing or close to it. I would care nothing if someone like you guys bought from someone else who was willing to blow a car out for cost. Deals like that would have to go through management, no salesman would want to be involved. It's not worth spending the couple hours showing someone the car and delivering it for lunch money.

Note that I said, "stated profit." I always knew that the dealer was making additional $$ in hold-backs that we were not being paid on. So it makes sense that management might sell a car for "invoice" but not a salesperson. I was fortunate enough to usually be selling cars that were in demand and did not have to be discounted to the bone to sell. Porsches mainly but also Lexus and Acura for a time. When Lexus came out in the early '90s, a dead person could make $10k a month selling them in this city. everything sold for sticker price and there were people standing in line to buy them. Porsches in the '80s were rarely discounted and 911s were never. It was a decent job worth having in those days.

Supply and demand. Domestic manufacturers can stamp-out all of the expensive pick up trucks and SUVs that a gullible buying public will purchase. It's a bit of a scam and drives most of the profit in the U.S. auto industry, I suspect that manufacturers could sell them all for half price and still make nothing but $$. That is why they can knock $10 or $20k off and still be smiling when you leave. They can offer crazy "incentives" to dealers when sales slow down. Even at the discounted prices, they are a terrible economic decision unless you have a legit need for a large truck and can make $$ off of owning it.

[pwd72s]

You boyz have it all wrong. The absolutely best way to buy a new rig is to walk into the dealership and say: "I can only afford $600 per month payments." They'll feel sorry for you and write up your best possible deal.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

I was looking at new Suburbans to replace my 20 year old 2500 4X4, OUCH!!!!
I'm just going paint mine and keep her forevermore.

Just have a little patience. Those $75k new Suburbans will be $8k cars before you know it. They don't have a lot of inherent value, it's all a scam.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

I NEVER tell the sales dude I'm a cash buyer.

They ask: "How will you be paying?" and my standard answer is: "No use thinking about that if we can't agree on a price."

Last time I bought from dealer, after the normal haggle session, we finally agreed to my price.
Then the sales dude's shoulders visibly slumped when I pulled a checkbook out of my rear pocket.
I think I did good.

Most of the questions that car salesmen ask are really stupid and counter productive. If I was training salespeople today, I would just tell them to assume that everyone they talk to can afford the car or truck they are looking at and show the vehicle. If a salesperson is any good at their job, they should be able to get to the point where they are discussing the purchase relatively quickly. That is when it's appropriate to discuss payment options. I guess it's alright to ask if someone is considering leasing v. purchasing during the presentation of the vehicle but I would not press it, myself.

Any type of "qualifying questions" that car salespeople are trained to ask are offensive to most people, (the assumption is that the customer cannot afford the new car they are looking at, based on customer's age or appearance).

Selling cars, (or multi-million dollar RE), should be a fairly simple and straightforward process. I don't see why anyone should have to lie or play games to sell a car. I use to tell people straight-up that we, the dealership, make a certain amount of $$ off of financing if you do it through the dealership and that it might affect the selling price of the vehicle. What's so hard about that?

[Zeke]

When buying new or used (at a dealer) you can easily leave money on the table re the selling price. Everyone is happy and the lunch money gets passed around. It's in the finance office where the real money is made. Here's the example I tell when the subject of car buying comes up. (I sold cars at a Chevy dealer for all of 3 months and one month of that was training.)

So, I sold a car for a fair price and it happened to be one of two alike. The one I sold was older stock so I got a spiff for that. The customer goes into the F & I office for an hour, comes out and I have his keys to his new ride.

F & I guy comes out and walks over to me and says, "Good job." IDK what for, maybe rolling that older inventory. Then he goes on to tell me that he "high penny-ed" the buyer. I have this blank look on my face being the greenhorn on the lot. So he explains: I had the payments down at $400 something a month and the change was like 11 cents. The F & I guy tells the customer that there was a minor, minor mistake and the payment is actually 85 cents higher. That flies right over the customer's (and my) head.

The F & I guy said my actual payment would work but he took 85 cents times 60 months for his pockets. That's 51 bucks. He says that if he does that 4 times a day, he's making a couple hundred a day. The reason is, and this is IMPORTANT, whatever overage there is when the dealer sells the contract to the bank, they keep.

So the other way this works (and on top of the high penny) is that the F & I guy says there was a dinky glitch on the credit report and the 'bank' wouldn't carry the loan at the percentage I quoted. So the F & I guy raises the rate just slightly so as to not kill the deal. This is plain poker my friends. Yep, you guessed it, when the loan sells for the original % quote, or even less in many cases, the F & I guy keeps the difference. Let me tell you that a half a point on a 60 month contract is hundreds. Depends of course on the amount. A quarter point is worth going after.

At the dealer I worked for the F & I office shared profits of sales of Teflon coating, accessories, extended warranties, etc, with the sales managers. The mark ups on this stuff is insane.

The moral to the story is leave some crumbs on the table but argue to the bitter end on any financing and don't buy anything but the bare car. Sure, bring your own pre-approved credit line, but keep it in your pocket until you know which is gonna be the best deal.

In conclusion: don't mention anything about loans or trade ins up front. Pick out a car and negotiate the price. If you're not happy, do as the others here have said, move on. When you find the deal you like, you've just gotten started. Remember, that if the dealer is trying to slam your head into the desk, that there was dealer no. 2 that had a car you would buy for the right deal. NOT price — total bottom line on the contract. That's the only number that counts.

With respect to that last sentence, I'm going to say this again a little differently. The way the money is distributed amongst the dealer's people does not matter to you. Let them fight for the crumbs between themselves. You walk out to your new car with one number in your hand, the only number. If buying for cash, same thing. They can sneak all kinds of bullsiht into a sales contract. And they will or they will either quit or get fired.

[CurtEgerer]

Bought my last 5 vehicles thru Dealer Auctions at wholesale with the help of a friend. Generally 1-2 years old. Would never buy new, no matter the discount.

[rcooled]

I once had a rather unusual experience when buying a 2 year old CPO BMW from a dealer. Unusual in that instead of trying to bend me over for more money, they actually offered to further reduce the price of the car without even being pushed. I did all the research up front, knew what I should be paying (in cash, no trade-in) and a fair deal was struck. Then, out of the blue, the salesman asks me if I currently own a Japanese car. I'm thinking WTF is this all about? I tell him that I had a Honda. He says that if I show him a current registration for it, he'll knock another $1K off the bottom line. Great! I ended up keeping the car until the warranty expired and never had any issues with it.

As far as I can see, the guy just kissed off a thousand dollars that was already in his pocket. Does anyone have a clue about what went on there?

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by Zeke

F & I guy ......

A few years ago my sister-in-law did very well doing the F & I stuff at a new car dealership.
She got really tired of being an attractive, single gal surrounded by horny sales dudes, and left the car business.

I figure I'm doing the F & I guy a favor by not taking up any more time than necessary.
I only negotiate an "out-the-door" price with the sales staff.
Once in the back office, I'll tell him he can throw in a warrantee, undercoating, floor mats, whatever he wants, but I'm going to write a check for the agreed upon amount, and not a penny more.
They seem to appreciate skipping the 45 minutes of pushy sales pitches for zero commission.

I only buy used. Haven't purchased from a dealer in a while. I've had some very pleasant interactions with private, face-to-face deals.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by rwest

Any truth to what I heard about cash not being “king”? I’ve heard that they stand to make a bunch of money off of interest on a loan, so they will discount the price farther than on a cash offer, so you should finance and then pay right off if cash was your plan?

I’m not sure how it works but the last time I bought from a dealer we talked about financing through the dealer’s lender. When I decided to pay cash he would not come down off his financed price.
I bought a tractor a few years ago and the best price include 60 month interest-free financing. A cash offer did not move him off the price.
They clearly have some incentive to have you finance.

[daepp]

As for "cash being king", the last few F150's and 250's we've purchased at work have had larger rebates if you agree to finance and agree not to pay off before 90 days. So we've purchased half a dozen that way - make 3 payments then the 4th pays it off. Saved nearly $2K each.

One more thing - I can't say enough about the 3.5L twin turbo in my Explorer - 60K miles on my 2016 and I still love it!

Good luck!

[Sooner or later]

For the best deal don't go car shopping with a severe case of new car fever. Sadly, new car fever only has one cure...

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I’m not sure how it works but the last time I bought from a dealer we talked about financing through the dealer’s lender. When I decided to pay cash he would not come down off his financed price.
I bought a tractor a few years ago and the best price include 60 month interest-free financing. A cash offer did not move him off the price.
They clearly have some incentive to have you finance.

Read my post again. They make money off financing. Paying cash closes that door.

[GH85Carrera]

As a member of USAA we can use their buying service. My dad ordered the last Toyota that way. He knew what vehicle he wanted, and picked the options, and had it delivered to a local dealer. Everything was done, all he had to do was go pick it up and sign his name that he picked it up in good condition. It was a 5 minute deal.

We used the USAA service to order or Macan. The local dealer does not participate in the buying service from USAA. Two dealers in Dallas do. That is a 220 mile trip for us.

My wife pick the options she wanted, and we got a firm price from Park Place Porsche. We walked into the local dealership, showed him our build from the Porsche web site. They quoted their price. I showed him the firm price we had from Park Place. He talked to the manager, they matched the price. It saved me a 440 mile round trip drive. The USAA price was several grand under the MSRP, or the price the local dealer was going to give us. He understood, lower the price, or we drive to Dallas. We were happier to have bought it locally. It took a few months for the car to arrive. We sold my wife's Infinity, G35X privately.

We had a choice of the USAA financing, or the dealership financing, our credit union, or write a check.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Read my post again. They make money off financing. Paying cash closes that door.

Which is why the sales staff tries to steer the conversation towards monthly payments, not the sale price.

[Tobra]

Play dumb and you will do better. I let them think they were screwing me on financing, then paid the car off two weeks later and avoided 100% of the finance charges.

[trader220]

Having worked for Porsche for 10 years, several of them as a salesman I love these threads. Nothing personal to anyone here.

You're trying to hit a moving target with most manufacturers. Invoice is not what they ultimately own the car for. With almost every manufacturer there is money behind the line.

As a sales manager I used to love the guys who called 27 dealerships. My salespeople would turn them over to me. "Sir, if you've called X number of dealerships already what would make me think you're going to drive 200 miles to buy our car if I save you $200 dollars on a $130k dollar car?"

or this one...

Customer says there is a dealer 200 miles away who is 3 or 4 dollars a month cheaper than we are on a Macan lease. I told him go lease the car from them. The car you want from me has an MSRP $700 bucks more so the lease payment with the same terms and discount is 4 bucks more a month. Customer says, well I don't want that option so I am not paying for it. I said, okay tell you what, come by once a month for the next 39 months and we'll go across the street to Starbucks and I'll personally buy you a cup of coffee.

When you're calling so many dealers that you're shaving 50 bucks at a time on a $30k dollar car, maybe its just time to buy the car?

I could sit here and tell you stories which would make you laugh your a__ off. I am not saying go in and over pay for a car. Its a business, the dealership is allowed to make a little money and the salesperson's time is worth some money too.

Originally Posted by trader220

Having worked for Porsche for 10 years, several of them as a salesman I love these threads. Nothing personal to anyone here.

. . . .

I could sit here and tell you stories which would make you laugh your a__ off. I am not saying go in and over pay for a car. Its a business, the dealership is allowed to make a little money and the salesperson's time is worth some money too.

I agree. Entertaining thread.

I do miss, though, the era of really great, knowledgeable salespeople. I seldom encounter them any more. My cousin Tim worked for a Porsche dealer in the 1980s, and, as a Porsche fanatic from birth, he knew everything about them. He started as a tech, but then moved into sales, and he was great at it.

Back then, Porsche was a much smaller club than it is today, and people who bought the cars were generally buying them because of what they were, not what they represented in status. He had a lot of doctors and dentists and the like as clients, and he often sold two or three cars to the same customers. With his good clients, he would drive to their homes and pick up their cars for service appointments, leaving them his demo as a loaner for the day. He'd pick the demo strategically--if the wife had liked the cute little red 944 when hubby bought his 928, Tim would take them the cute little red 944. He sold a lot of follow-on cars that way.

Tim was not the sort of guy who would leave cash on the table, but he never played games. He was an enthusiast who wanted to share his passion with other enthusiasts.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Disclaimer - I will never, ever buy new. Depreciation is for suckers. That said, I like the Carmax model (no affiliation, I just like them). No sales BS and no games and no haggling nonsense. Just look up what they have, go in and get it, then arrange your own shipping or pickup. I believe Carvana is similar. Any day I don’t have to deal with salespeople is a good day as far as I’m concerned. I value my time.

[KFC911]

It's on a "need to know" basis...

I haven't known how since I wuz young and stoopid....a LOT