Not sure I know how to buy a new car anymore - Page 3

onewhippedpuppy · 03-26-2019, 05:19 AM

I personally think the dealer service model is horribly outdated, now being propped up by lobbyists and outdated laws. The sales team has little knowledge. The finance team tries to upsell things you don’t need. The service department is typically inept. Where is the value? This is one area where Tesla gets it right, new cars could easily be ordered online at a flat price and delivered to your door.

trader220 · 03-26-2019, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Disclaimer - I will never, ever buy new. Depreciation is for suckers. That said, I like the Carmax model (no affiliation, I just like them). No sales BS and no games and no haggling nonsense. Just look up what they have, go in and get it, then arrange your own shipping or pickup. I believe Carvana is similar. Any day I don’t have to deal with salespeople is a good day as far as I’m concerned. I value my time.

Its not a bad model at all, the only issue is price, they're typically not the lowest price around and sooooooooooo many people are only happy if they buy the rock rock bottom. I am always blown away by people who are willing to travel hundreds of miles to save $250 bucks on a $30k car.

In the winter of 2009 I had only been with Porsche for 6 months and I was still a salesman. The market had crashed and for the first time in history Porsche was giving cash back on a 911. The cash back was substantial. I had a very well known local business man who advertised his business aggressively all over the city. He came in several times and haggled away over and over. On a 2009 C4S coupe that stickered for about $130k he was down to about $98 grand. He came in for a 4th time and said there was a dealer in Ohio who had the same car and was $246 bucks cheaper and if I beat his price he's buy the car from me. Ultimately I told him to enjoy his trip to Ohio. Gas, tolls and time would cost him more but he was more interested in beating me up and feeling like he got every dime.

CurtEgerer · CurtEgerer's Garage

Had a friend recently buy from Carvana. Bought a VW Jetta TDI (Carvana may have purchased a bunch of these from VW?). Delivery guy got a CEL on the way. Carvana took it to the local VW dealer. 3 days later, friend gets a call. Delivery guy filled the car with gasoline. Engine rebuild required

So a week or 2 later, another car is found and delivered. Beautiful car, friend happy. 7 day / 450-mile no questions asked return policy. Yes, you will pay top $$ but it's pretty damn convenient and low-risk.

trader220 · 03-26-2019, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Had a friend recently buy from Carvana. Bought a VW Jetta TDI (Carvana may have purchased a bunch of these from VW?). Delivery guy got a CEL on the way. Carvana took it to the local VW dealer. 3 days later, friend gets a call. Delivery guy filled the car with gasoline. Engine rebuild required

So a week or 2 later, another car is found and delivered. Beautiful car, friend happy. 7 day / 450-mile no questions asked return policy. Yes, you will pay top $$ but it's pretty damn convenient and low-risk.

Cheaper than a rental car for a few days

speeder · speeder's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Had a friend recently buy from Carvana. Bought a VW Jetta TDI (Carvana may have purchased a bunch of these from VW?). Delivery guy got a CEL on the way. Carvana took it to the local VW dealer. 3 days later, friend gets a call. Delivery guy filled the car with gasoline. Engine rebuild required

So a week or 2 later, another car is found and delivered. Beautiful car, friend happy. 7 day / 450-mile no questions asked return policy. Yes, you will pay top $$ but it's pretty damn convenient and low-risk.

Reason #38 why their business model is completely insane. I saw one of their ads in the local CL for a Tdi, when I called, the car was actually in Atlanta and they wanted to deliver it to me. WHAT??

These cars area absolutely a dime-a-dozen on the market right now in every city in the USA. VW needs to get rid of, oh, about 250,000 of them on the used market, give or take. For a pretty set price, you have your pick of low-mileage examples at any VW dealer in any color w a CPO warranty. Why the fk would I buy one from some internet start-up clown from the other side of the country? And for top $$, you say? Send me three of them and have some millennial monkey drive my car cross-country. That's the ticket.

trader220 · 03-26-2019, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeder

Reason #38 why their business model is completely insane. I saw one of their ads in the local CL for a Tdi, when I called, the car was actually in Atlanta and they wanted to deliver it to me. WHAT??

These cars area absolutely a dime-a-dozen on the market right now in every city in the USA. VW needs to get rid of, oh, about 250,000 of them on the used market, give or take. For a pretty set price, you have your pick of low-mileage examples at any VW dealer in any color w a CPO warranty. Why the fk would I buy one from some internet start-up clown from the other side of the country? And for top $$, you say? Send me three of them and have some millennial monkey drive my car cross-country. That's the ticket.

They truck them around the country but you're right. Those cars, like most are a dime a dozen. Also, in order to buy a CPO one you have to buy it from an authorized dealer and not a third party dealer so you cannot buy a CPO from Carvana or any of the other's who are not VW dealers.

There is no mystery in the price of most used cars. There are enough late model cars on the market for you to know pretty much what they're worth. Unless you're buying an older car or something a little less popular there is no mystery. I use a software program that most larger dealers have, it tracks 40k or so websites and tracks cars in the market by VIN number. If I run a search on a 2016 Camry or Jetter, there will be somewhere around 75 listed for sale within 50 miles of me. That's surely a big enough sample size to know what you should pay.

trader220 · 03-26-2019, 09:35 AM

BTW today the government announced that used car are pace to hit their highest sales level since the great recession.

Steve Carlton · 03-26-2019, 09:37 AM

vAuto?

trader220 · 03-26-2019, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

vAuto?

That's one, there are others too.

CurtEgerer · CurtEgerer's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeder

Reason #38 why their business model is completely insane. I saw one of their ads in the local CL for a Tdi, when I called, the car was actually in Atlanta and they wanted to deliver it to me. WHAT??

These cars area absolutely a dime-a-dozen on the market right now in every city in the USA. VW needs to get rid of, oh, about 250,000 of them on the used market, give or take. For a pretty set price, you have your pick of low-mileage examples at any VW dealer in any color w a CPO warranty. Why the fk would I buy one from some internet start-up clown from the other side of the country? And for top $$, you say? Send me three of them and have some millennial monkey drive my car cross-country. That's the ticket.

The reason is that you DON'T have to deal with the local sales clowns and do the dance (buying a car the traditional way is considered by most to be the equivalent of a root canal). Not sure if any local dealers offer the 7-day 450-mile return policy either.

This car was trucked from California to Michigan. The way I understand it, they fill the gas tank before delivery and that's what they were doing, only an hour or so from the destination. I've been out of the market on TDIs for a few years and didn't realize they were giving them away. Need to check though as I've owned 3 or 4 in the past and they were fantastic cars.

speeder · speeder's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

The reason is that you DON'T have to deal with the local sales clowns and do the dance (buying a car the traditional way is considered by most to be the equivalent of a root canal). Not sure if any local dealers offer the 7-day 450-mile return policy either.

This car was trucked from California to Michigan. The way I understand it, they fill the gas tank before delivery and that's what they were doing, only an hour or so from the destination. I've been out of the market on TDIs for a few years and didn't realize they were giving them away. Need to check though as I've owned 3 or 4 in the past and they were fantastic cars.

OK...I thought you said that "the deliver guy got a CEL on the way." They are great cars and they have plummeted in price, bring all older TDis down w them. I just bought Pelican RSBob's tdi wagon, it's super clean and was a deal. There are plenty around from private parties as well.

I also went to 2 different local VW dealers here in the Los Angeles area to look at them, test drove at both and the experience was as far from a dentist visit as it could be. Not unpleasant at all. No one was desperately trying to sell me a car and both salespeople were more than pleasant. Between myself and other family members, we've bought dozens of new cars from dealers and never experienced anything like a root canal, (which is a false scary analogy if you have a good endodontist. I've had two and they were completely painless).

I think that some of you guys must go into a car dealer filled w fear of being screwed and transfer that fear into your intertactions w the dealer. I've seen people like that when I sold cars, I wanted to give them a Zanex and a Teddie bear. It's a terrible phobia.

Clint Lando · 03-26-2019, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugsinrugs

Try Tru Car.

Do not give them your real phone number or e-mail they'll never stop bugging you ever

scottmandue · 03-26-2019, 02:40 PM

I thought with the internet car salesmen are screwed.

As has been said there are websites that will show you dealer cost (yes, I know that is BS but it gives you a starting point).

Plus you can search your city, state, or even country to see the price range of any car you are shopping for.

Interesting comments on car salesmen (salespeople?). I love cars and there are two Porsche dealers near me... but talking to people who have had that job I don't hear much positive feedback.

trader220 · 03-26-2019, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeder

OK...I thought you said that "the deliver guy got a CEL on the way." They are great cars and they have plummeted in price, bring all older TDis down w them. I just bought Pelican RSBob's tdi wagon, it's super clean and was a deal. There are plenty around from private parties as well.

I also went to 2 different local VW dealers here in the Los Angeles area to look at them, test drove at both and the experience was as far from a dentist visit as it could be. Not unpleasant at all. No one was desperately trying to sell me a car and both salespeople were more than pleasant. Between myself and other family members, we've bought dozens of new cars from dealers and never experienced anything like a root canal, (which is a false scary analogy if you have a good endodontist. I've had two and they were completely painless).

I think that some of you guys must go into a car dealer filled w fear of being screwed and transfer that fear into your intertactions w the dealer. I've seen people like that when I sold cars, I wanted to give them a Zanex and a Teddie bear. It's a terrible phobia.

Since you sold cars you know what its like. There are a fair number of customers who are sure they're getting screwed no matter what price is being discussed. I have had Porsche customers who were sure we were making $15 to $20 grand on them. Really on a $65 dollar Macan? No matter what you show them or what they read they're sure you're screwing them. Then you have the customer who comes in and is looking for a fight, they wont stop until they get one. Its a self fulfilling proposition for them, they want to get down and dirty and they are sure they're going to get treated badly so they drop the gloves the moment the walk in the door. Then there are the people who assume everything is free or costs the dealership next to nothing. "Come on just toss in a car cover and a set of winter tires, it doesn't cost you guys anything"... "Come on you beat me up on price so badly just give me the regular maintenance contract for free." When they don't get what they want they're pissy.

trader220 · 03-26-2019, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I thought with the internet car salesmen are screwed.

As has been said there are websites that will show you dealer cost (yes, I know that is BS but it gives you a starting point).

Plus you can search your city, state, or even country to see the price range of any car you are shopping for.

Interesting comments on car salesmen (salespeople?). I love cars and there are two Porsche dealers near me... but talking to people who have had that job I don't hear much positive feedback.

When I sold my seats on the exchange and walked away from trading, I actually wanted to be in the Porsche business. (okay I took 9 months off first) I was a salesman for a couple years and then I was in management. I can tell you in the 10 years I was in the Porsche business, the margins on new cars contracted quite a bit. Sales people suffered. I had a couple sales people who worked for me at Porsche over the years who were in the business for 20 or more years. They had years in the past were they made north of $200k, that would be unheard of for a salesman in todays market. The biggest seller is the Macan, its a roughly $55k car, that has 5 to 7 grand of markup total in it, of which just for walking in the door you'll get most of that in a discount.

scottmandue · 03-26-2019, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trader220

When I sold my seats on the exchange and walked away from trading, I actually wanted to be in the Porsche business. (okay I took 9 months off first) I was a salesman for a couple years and then I was in management. I can tell you in the 10 years I was in the Porsche business, the margins on new cars contracted quite a bit. Sales people suffered. I had a couple sales people who worked for me at Porsche over the years who were in the business for 20 or more years. They had years in the past were they made north of $200k, that would be unheard of for a salesman in todays market. The biggest seller is the Macan, its a roughly $55k car, that has 5 to 7 grand of markup total in it, of which just for walking in the door you'll get most of that in a discount.

Hmmm, I retire in May and looking for something to do with myself

trader220 · 03-26-2019, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Hmmm, I retire in May and looking for something to do with myself

Scott, it was interesting but the hours are brutal. I really enjoyed the management side, especially in the used car markets. I met many many really nice clients but unfortunately the bad ones started ruining it for me. Plus I got tired of working Saturday's. I was the GSM at a Porsche dealer for the last 15 or so months I was in the business. It was fun but haggling with people for $250 bucks or even $500 on $160k dollar car where they're already getting a killer deal just gets old. My problem is I didn't see any reason to lie to people, I showed em my costs down to the dime, and they would turn around and lie right to my face. Dealer XYZ is showing me a price $8000 bucks less. "excuse me, I just showed you the absolute cost of the car, its the same for every Porsche dealer, why would I believe they're going to sell you the car for $5000 below what they have into it? Mr. customer, there is no mystery here and I can see every car in their inventory too."