Depression and suicide

[pavulon]

I think there are a couple types of people. One group can get past stuff...the water off a duck's back sort. The other type carry it all with them...this type is at risk.

[craigster59]

I have posted about it before, I lost my Mom to suicide in 1975. She didn't show any major signs of depression, just going through a rough patch at the time. Permanent solution to a temporary problem if there ever was one.

Talk about your problems, don't hide them or bury them. Makes for a lot of tough Mother's Days.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

A few years ago, a guy in my firehouse hung himself at home. An hour earlier, he was at our dept Christmas party, laughing it up having a great time with everyone, being his usual outgoing self.
We were clueless.
He had went through a divorce earlier, but never really showed a single sign.

So the tone has changed a bit in this Thread..its not depression it is more the HIDING of your inner turmoil.

Many think that they don't want to be a bother, or that no one else in the world is suffering the same shyte that they are..that everybody else is carefree. That they are alone.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by pavulon

I think there are a couple types of people. One group can get past stuff...the water off a duck's back sort. The other type carry it all with them...this type is at risk.

It is not getting past the shyte but how you do it. Everybody faces an existensile struggle everyday of their life. Some people can not resolve their issues. It happens for a variety of reasons from poor coping skills to not wanting to face a truth in their life.

[tabs]

The predominant thing I have noticed with you Boyz is that each of you has this I just don't know why area of your life. When something happens you all get this bewildered look on your face..trying to make sense of it..To varying degrees of dysfunction you come up with some cockamamie rational. The reason for it is that either you do not pay attention and sluff it off or don't look at it.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by tabs

The predominant thing I have noticed with you Boyz is that each of you has this I just don't know why area of your life. When something happens you all get this bewildered look on your face..trying to make sense of it..To varying degrees of dysfunction you come up with some cockamamie rational. The reason for it is that either you do not pay attention and sluff it off or don't look at it.

When a 14 yr old kid blows his head off with a shotgun, and a dear friend is destroyed....I don't even care why Tabby....and way before psych meds were in vogue also. Every thread doesn't need that....jmho.

Sorry for posting nothing but condolences...to you all...

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by craigster59

I have posted about it before, I lost my Mom to suicide in 1975. She didn't show any major signs of depression, just going through a rough patch at the time. Permanent solution to a temporary problem if there ever was one.

Talk about your problems, don't hide them or bury them. Makes for a lot of tough Mother's Days.

I never knew...thanks!

[tabs]

Originally Posted by KC911

When a 14 yr old kid blows his head off with a shotgun, and a dear friend is destroyed....I don't even care why Tabby....and way before psych meds were in vogue also. Every thread doesn't need that....jmho.

Sorry for posting nothing but condolences...to you all...

I went to the wedding of a girl that I grew up with who was a couple of years older..her high school teacher husband shot himself twice in the head and still didn't die until he was on the way to the hospital. Now I had never met him so I do not know the particulars nor care to know really, it is a waste of my time.* However I do know the generalities of motivation as described above.

All you are is stuck with is the pain of it all...

In life you are dealt a set of cards physically and otherwise, as a child you are taught how to play those cards and then you face the vagaries of life with that knowledge.

When someone decides to opt out of facing their adversity, it is not very supportive nor hopeful for me in the face of the adversity that I have to deal with everyday. So I just have to say fk him, and carry on.

On Wednesday I was at a Thrift and this old guy walks up and I get to talking to him. He joined the Navy when he was 17 years old. One day a superior asks if anyone knew how to type and talk shorthand. thinking that it was better than the KP detail he said, that he did. A few weeks later he was shipped out to Pearl Harbor. Several weeks after arriving (12/7/1941) he hears a ruckus, is wondering what it was all about when the Japs dropped a bomb on and blowing up the building across the street from the one he was in. He got down on the floor.. About that time his wife walks up where you could clearly see how much she loved him and said that he was 90 years old and married for 70 years...I asked him if he was scared shytless when the Japs were bombing and he said, "You bet." He and his wife then walked on down the aisle.. Now that is something hopeful and uplifting to hear.

[tabs]

A friend of mine who has long since passed away told a story about his growing up where one day his mother tried to kill herself. He went down by the creek and was crying uncontrollably/hysterically. His Pastor father came up to him and slapped him across the face saying, "Nobody is worth that."

Later my friend was in the 8th AF flying fighter missions out of England in a P51, got a PhD in psych from USC and was the cofounder of the Fuller Seminary Graduate school of Psych.

[tabs]

One of the most endearing movies that I have seen is "Middle Of The Night" 1959 with Fredric March and Kim Novak in a May December romance..My favorite line in the movie is when the Albert Dekker character says to March, "You can put on my tombstone that it all has been one big waste of time." The Dekker character later in the movie trys to kill himself. March and Novak in the end find that they need each other inspite of the difference in age.

[wayner]

In my opinion the problem with this topic area is that people try to find that one reason that a person took their life, and then apply it to every situation where it has happened.

I believe that there are multiple scenarios, not just one size fits all.
Here are just a few, perhaps one per person:

• Stuck between a rock and a hard place. Seeing no way out and choosing this way after exhausting all options (Look up the psychology around a term "learned helplessness"
  
• Revenge or attention seeking - "I'll show you"
  
• Nothing left to live for - No reason to keep going and just drifting away
  
• Feeling worthless to society and not worth caring about, so a person stops caring about themselves. This can also be a learned behavior.
• Perhaps many more. This list is not extensive

There are many different reasons, its not one size fits all. Two people may reach the same end for very different reasons.

I believe that the one thing (among many things) that a person can do in any aspect of their life, is let themselves off the hook more easily.

I think this applies to both the person contemplating such an act
as well as to those left behind.

• I did the best I could do. Nobody could expect any more"
• I helped those who I could and thats all I could be expected to do
• There is no way I could have known and without that knowledge it is unrealistic that I could have prevented this
• It is unrealistic to expect that I had the skills to help in a meaningful way
  

I hope you get my point

Psycology is all about perspective.
As Tabs points out, our brains are wired by those who raise us, (and also by those whom we choose to live with) We just don't have the tools. Our parents did the best they could do. Our spouses have their own struggles.

In my case Ive rationalized and simplified traumatic experiences in life in order to let my self off the hook and minimize the personal anguish in this way.

For example, I have finally reconciled my divorce as:
She had a crisis. I was just the fallout. It wasn't about me.

...and I move on, as Tabs illustrates in his stories above, even if it accidentally minimized feelings.
But, to his point, you must move on, and you must leave the baggage behind.

In times of loss such as suicide of a friend, feel your feelings. Don't let some good intentioned person minimize your feelings. You feel the way you do, and thats ok.
The next steps though is to figure out what you are going to do about it, not carry it through life, a way of find a way to put it into perspective so that you can move on.

To the original poster, your friend would want you to live the happy life the he sought.
Grieve for him, but then realize that we all have our struggles and our triumphs. Its just part of life. Life is good. The alternative not so much. You were fortunate to have known him and he to have known you.

[Jims5543]

Hunter Thompson fascinates me, so much so I use his artwork for my avatar on all forums.

I have read many of his books and works for magazines. I think he was a brilliant mind despite his self abuse.

How he exited was interesting, he left on his own terms and I can respect that.


Many years ago my wife's grandfather and I were very close, we would sit and talk for hours he could tell stories for days, the man had a VERY interesting life as the son of a Mafia Boss.

When he was nearing the end of his life there were a few times when we would be sitting alone, he would look around to make sure no one else was around, and he would admit to me, he just wants to die already, he wants it over with, he said the pain every day was inhumane and he was just tired of it, walking up from sleep was dreadful as unconsciousness was his only reprieve from pain. He told me many times he just wanted to die and I understood. Hunter was tired of the pain, from what I understand Hunter called his wife Anita and said goodbye before pulling the trigger.

If he had been a decent man he would have gone outside to make the mess, it would have been easier to clean up.



About 3 months ago my niece tried to off herself. She is 19 years old has a BF, they life in an apartment 1 town south, she is a sweetheart. The has some health issues, she has Essential Tremor Syndrome which is like Parkinson's except not Parkinson's.

She also has some other issues lots of health problems many are unusual and require a lot of treatment.

She has a great job with a great larger international company and makes a decent living as does her boyfriend who is a HVAC tech.

One day out of nowhere she decided to take an entire bottle of anti-seizure pills and go to bed. She hoped to not wake up again.

Boyfriend found her unresponsive and called 911 and saved her life, stomach pumped and then baker acted into treatment for depression and suicidal tendencies.

She is out on her own now and on limited work, per doctors orders, my wife has really taken her in, they go for walks over the causeway 2-3 times a week and talk, my wife is a gentle soul and is good for her, a ray of positivity.

I promised myself years ago, if I can I see the moment when I will lose my dignity, I am checking out. I hope to have achieved all my goals by then, financially and responsibilities to my family. There is no way in hell I am spending years in pain and suffering with someone wiping my ass for me.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by wayner

In my opinion the problem with this topic area is that people try to find that one reason that a person took their life, and then apply it to every situation where it has happened.

I believe that there are multiple scenarios, not just one size fits all.
Here are just a few, perhaps one per person:

• Stuck between a rock and a hard place. Seeing no way out and choosing this way after exhausting all options (Look up the psychology around a term "learned helplessness"
  
• Revenge or attention seeking - "I'll show you"
  
• Nothing left to live for - No reason to keep going and just drifting away
  
• Feeling worthless to society and not worth caring about, so a person stops caring about themselves. This can also be a learned behavior.
• Perhaps many more. This list is not extensive

There are many different reasons, its not one size fits all. Two people may reach the same end for very different reasons.

I believe that the one thing (among many things) that a person can do in any aspect of their life, is let themselves off the hook more easily.

I think this applies to both the person contemplating such an act
as well as to those left behind.

• I did the best I could do. Nobody could expect any more"
• I helped those who I could and thats all I could be expected to do
• There is no way I could have known and without that knowledge it is unrealistic that I could have prevented this
• It is unrealistic to expect that I had the skills to help in a meaningful way
  

I hope you get my point

Psycology is all about perspective.
As Tabs points out, our brains are wired by those who raise us, (and also by those whom we choose to live with) We just don't have the tools. Our parents did the best they could do. Our spouses have their own struggles.

In my case Ive rationalized and simplified traumatic experiences in life in order to let my self off the hook and minimize the personal anguish in this way.

For example, I have finally reconciled my divorce as:
She had a crisis. I was just the fallout. It wasn't about me.

...and I move on, as Tabs illustrates in his stories above, even if it accidentally minimized feelings.
But, to his point, you must move on, and you must leave the baggage behind.

In times of loss such as suicide of a friend, feel your feelings. Don't let some good intentioned person minimize your feelings. You feel the way you do, and thats ok.
The next steps though is to figure out what you are going to do about it, not carry it through life, a way of find a way to put it into perspective so that you can move on.

To the original poster, your friend would want you to live the happy life the he sought.
Grieve for him, but then realize that we all have our struggles and our triumphs. Its just part of life. Life is good. The alternative not so much. You were fortunate to have known him and he to have known you.

I don't minimize feelings as I am stuck with a boat load of anguish. It is just that I get angry when someone opts out, as that act does not leave me encouraged to deal with the vagaries of my life.

The closer a person is to you the more of a process emotional and otherwise you have to go through to come to a resolution of the event to make sense of it so you can move on. Otherwise there will always be that nagging little echo in your life. Ultimately it is not about them but about your own feelings and thoughts about it...that needs resolution.


Which to move the topic over just one step, the more that little issues are not dealt with and remain without resolution sooner or later the situation will get out of hand. Once a decision is made to avoid an issue it becomes so much easier to keep avoiding problems, which then starts compounding problems. Till you get to the point that each party is at each others throats and the nation is failing.

Otherwise your thoughts are succinct if not exhaustive..

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Jims5543

Hunter Thompson fascinates me, so much so I use his artwork for my avatar on all forums.

I have read many of his books and works for magazines. I think he was a brilliant mind despite his self abuse.

How he exited was interesting, he left on his own terms and I can respect that.


Many years ago my wife's grandfather and I were very close, we would sit and talk for hours he could tell stories for days, the man had a VERY interesting life as the son of a Mafia Boss.

When he was nearing the end of his life there were a few times when we would be sitting alone, he would look around to make sure no one else was around, and he would admit to me, he just wants to die already, he wants it over with, he said the pain every day was inhumane and he was just tired of it, walking up from sleep was dreadful as unconsciousness was his only reprieve from pain. He told me many times he just wanted to die and I understood. Hunter was tired of the pain, from what I understand Hunter called his wife Anita and said goodbye before pulling the trigger.

If he had been a decent man he would have gone outside to make the mess, it would have been easier to clean up.



About 3 months ago my niece tried to off herself. She is 19 years old has a BF, they life in an apartment 1 town south, she is a sweetheart. The has some health issues, she has Essential Tremor Syndrome which is like Parkinson's except not Parkinson's.

She also has some other issues lots of health problems many are unusual and require a lot of treatment.

She has a great job with a great larger international company and makes a decent living as does her boyfriend who is a HVAC tech.

One day out of nowhere she decided to take an entire bottle of anti-seizure pills and go to bed. She hoped to not wake up again.

Boyfriend found her unresponsive and called 911 and saved her life, stomach pumped and then baker acted into treatment for depression and suicidal tendencies.

She is out on her own now and on limited work, per doctors orders, my wife has really taken her in, they go for walks over the causeway 2-3 times a week and talk, my wife is a gentle soul and is good for her, a ray of positivity.

I promised myself years ago, if I can I see the moment when I will lose my dignity, I am checking out. I hope to have achieved all my goals by then, financially and responsibilities to my family. There is no way in hell I am spending years in pain and suffering with someone wiping my ass for me.

I too thought about Hunter...he was in failing health and to personality he said fk it..I am outa here...Then there are those who continue to carry on (fight) till they can't anymore... If it doesn't take courage it takes resolve to carry on.

The issue of checking out early because of medical issues as in a terminal illness that is getting progressively worse is one where I can't say anything? When there is no light (relief except death) at the end of the tunnel, what do you do?


I have a friend of nearly 30 years that is 81, to make a long story short he has heart problems going back those 30 years. He usually calls about once a week to argue about politics and the economy. When I don't hear from him I know something is up..medically..it has happened a number of time in the past. Earleir this year a few week passed before he called. When he did call he said he was in the hospital where his heart slowed way down and they had to jump start it 4 times...He said he, "Saw the light." It turns out it was his reaction to a new med he was taking. Everything was back to normal for a couple of months and then a month passes without a call? So I called him, "Where he said he was in the hospital 3 times for 3 days each, and that he wishes the first time he was in the hospital earlier this year would have gotten him. He said that he was ready to go..the thing that make me think this is about it is that he said he is having a hard time eating and drinking...ahhh ohhh..finally he said that he had to go...I could tell the conversation not only exhausted him but that the goings on of life does not interest him anymore.

I think that his heart is about worn out and he is failing..so I do not know if he is going to bounce back this time? Then the gal who I go out with, had severe chest pains in October. She spent 3 days in the hospital where they didn't find a heart attack but a lump behind her left breast. It took 3 months to get a biopsy to find it was cancer. Fortunately it was Stage 1 and now she is undergoing Chemo and then Radiation..She is a fighter..and has a good attitude. Yesterday I called up an east coast friend whose spoon knowledge is encyclopedic, where the conversation eventually turned to all the big spoon collectors that we know who have grown old and have passed away...as the reason why SS rifle prices are in decline.

[tabs]

My friend died on Monday 5/13/19.

[wayner]

Tabs, it seems that this thread is really close to home.

You have my condolences, and I am sorry for your loss

Wayne

[Danimal16]

Tabs, very sorry for your loss.

[KFC911]

My condolences to you also Ted....may he RIP.

[pwd72s]

One way or another we're all going to leave the planet. That's a stone cold fact.

At 75, I have peers dying on a frequent basis. Sometimes I wonder why I'm still here and they aren't. Just lucky, I guess.

Yes, I know of suicides among peers...only one a mental issue, a bad marriage scenario. The others? No hope painful medical stuff with the medical community eating away resources better left to loved ones. I sure can't get angry over those.

[Rednine11]

my live in GF of 2 year committed suicide in my house. I found her........please help the family if there is anything you can do just be there.