Hell on earth

[74-911]

Originally Posted by KC911

Yer gonna smell diesel on boats...on deck even...I've seen it cause more than a few to hurl over the side....seriously.

Been there and almost done that... diesel fumes will make you seriously nauseous in a hurry... and if the boat is pitching/rolling you best head for the nearest rail ??

[Zeke]

I think the Los Angeles Times has good info since they're right here in SoCal and are reporting directly, not reading the AP news feed.

As such they are reporting 2 exits from the bunk area, one of which is also the entry. That and the hatch mentioned both open up to the galley and mess area and NOT to open air. So, apparently that's where the fire was concentrated trapping all below.

I can't imagine this really being the case because that is the ultimate in stupidity in marine design. And if true, lawsuits will abound.

Here's a snip from the article:
"When the fire broke out around 3 a.m., five crew members on deck jumped overboard and escaped, paddling a dinghy to a nearby boat. Everyone else — including another member of the crew — was in sleeping quarters below deck and unable to get out, with the only two exits apparently blocked by fire.
Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown said Tuesday that the victims were trapped below deck with no way of getting to safety.
“There was a stairwell to get down the main entryway up and down and there was an escape hatch, and it would appear as though both of those were blocked by fire,” he said.
The main staircase led into the galley, and the hatch opened into the adjacent mess area, both of which were engulfed in flames."

Link but you might need the subscription.
https://enewspaper.latimes.com/desktop/latimes/default.aspx?edid=ac3dde94-06c8-404f-8095-7a94cba03896

[speeder]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

It was a wood hull boat built in 1981. It only takes a small amount of diesel to create a stink and it is very hard to get rid of. Diesel had nothing to do with what went wrong. Diesel is very difficult to ignite. Once the fire got going the diesel would have ignited and burned but, by the time the diesel ignited it would have already been an inferno.

Boat had Nitrox refill tank on board to refill the nitrox dive tanks. I wonder where that was stored in relation ship to propane tanks, fire source? If that tank or line ruptured in connection with propane that is a super heated fire.

Exactly. Diesel isn’t nearly volatile enough to cause an explosion like what likely caused this inferno. Gasoline isn’t either but it will burn a lot easier than diesel. Don’t think that there was any gasoline on board. It was propane or diving tanks.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by KC911

Yer gonna smell diesel on boats...on deck even...I've seen it cause more than a few to hurl over the side....seriously.

The ULSD they sell now has hardly any odor, it smells like baby oil. The sulphuric smell is gone. Diesel had nothing to do with this, anyway.


The NTSB official quoted in today’s LA Times said that she was “100% sure that they would determine the origin of this fire.” So just hang tight, within 10 days there will be a preliminary report.

[bugstrider]

I just found out that we lost three from the dive shop I work with as a Dive Master. Unknown if there were more.

Details are still all broken


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[drcoastline]

My condolences on the loss of your friends, very sad and tragic.

[cmccuist]

I can see a lot of new regulations coming out of this. Rightfully so.

[ossiblue]

I have followed this story since the beginning and it is beyond tragic. The boat was well regarded by the entire diving community and was always in compliance for safety with the crew especially known for pre-voyage safety instruction to the passengers. The Conception was considered the "Crown Jewel" of overnight dive boats.

Latest theory, offered by the designer of the boat itself, is that the fire was started by a Lithium battery charging station, possibly located in the bunk area or in the galley. Lots of lithium devices on board from laptops to cell phones to cameras and flash equipment. One surviving crew member states he was awakened by a "jolt" and immediately confronted by fire. We've all seen videos of exploding/burning lithium batteries so the ferocity of the fire could be intense. Something I heard on the first day of reporting, but have not heard since, is that the crew tried to suppress the fire but it kept reigniting. If true, that is consistent with a fire fueled by lithium devices, though it does not exclude any other cause.

Regardless of the cause, this is a tragedy beyond words.

[bugstrider]

The whole Truth Aquatics line was always a very impressive operation. The highest level of professionalism with regards to overnight dive boats. The boats were always very well maintained and the crews were always professional. No other operations were even close to their level. That is what sold my wife on taking a trip after she toured all three moored in the harbor at the Scuba Expo in Long Beach.

That is interesting with regards to the Lithium battery theory. On the deck directly above the berthing area is where everyone charged their equipment, cameras, lights, etc. I did it many times and never thought anything about it.

Regardless, it is a tragedy in an unfathomable level. I just don’t see the company surviving this event. Our hearts go out to all of the families affected by this accident.

[drcoastline]

I'm not buying the lithium battery theory. It may be the ignition source as opposed to say the stove ignitor but there was some sort of flammable gas liquid that caused two escape routes to be blocked.

NTSB investigator just stated she was on the sister ship that was very similar to the Conception. The escape hatch was at above a berth at the aft end of the berthing quarters. The layout of the berthing quarters shows three bunks end to end. If those bunks were six feet in length that is 18 feet. The stair case that appears about 18" wide and a table of some sort we will say is also 18" wide. that is roughly 21'-6" from the stair case to the escape hatch.

I don't buy that a Lithium battery starts a fire that spreads twenty-one feet that quickly. If it is true the crew that survived attempted to put the fire out several times but it restarted that would indicate the immediate fire was survivable as these crew members were in close proximity. It would also indicate the fire was out or at least contained to some degree allowing others the opportunity to escape. You would think one person would be able to exit even if severely burned and died at a later date. But all reports indicate no one escaped the berthing area and the only survivors immediately abandoned ship. The story isn't consistent with the only survivors being those awake on the bridge.

[brainz01]

Depending on the lithium battery chemistry, the fumes from the fire alone would be quickly incapacitating and likely fatal.

Some research on lithium battery fire risks:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5577247/

The punchline to the above is that certain lithium battery chemistries burn to release hydroflouric acid (HF). That's some nasty stuff and quickly fatal if inhaled at concentrations that seem probable for a ship's [large] battery bank.

NOTE: All the above is speculation. I stayed at a Holiday Inn a long time ago. My heart goes out to the crew and passengers. RIP.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by brainz01

.... quickly fatal if inhaled at concentrations that seem probable for a ship's [large] battery bank....

What battery bank????

They were talking about portable devices plugged in for charging, I think...

[brainz01]

Originally Posted by tcar

What battery bank????



They were talking about portable devices plugged in for charging, I think...

Ah, I was thinking the ship's batteries. Lithium conversions are increasingly popular with the cruising (sailing) set for the weight/size savings (or capacity increase). Not sure if commercial vessels care.

Agree that personal devices seem less threatening, though the battery chemistry is likely more toxic when combusted - - but depends on the battery.

[tcar]

Probably would not use lithium there... with two large diesel engines, two diesel generators, large fuel tanks, etc.

Speed and performance would the the last thing on their mind.

[bugstrider]

This couple was out of the dive shop I help out at locally. going by there today, not looking forward to that.
http://kcra.com/article/couple-sacramento-died-california-dive-boat-fire/28928872?src=app



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[speeder]

Boat owner and their insurance company making moves already to avoid paying out anything to victims:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-05/california-boat-fire-lawsuit-damages-court-filing

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by speeder

Boat owner and their insurance company making moves already to avoid paying out anything to victims:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-05/california-boat-fire-lawsuit-damages-court-filing

And lawyers were at a memorial in Santa Barbara drumming up business.

At a memorial.

WTF?

Yeah, legal jockeying didn't even take much more than a week as the boat owners have already received claims per the article you linked.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by speeder

Boat owner and their insurance company making moves already to avoid paying out anything to victims:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-05/california-boat-fire-lawsuit-damages-court-filing

The article doesn't state it, but I'm guessing their insurance company is making them do this.

[bugstrider]

^^and now the ugliness begins


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[Rick Lee]

And I'm sure the company has a risk management officer who's working overtime now. Something of this magnitude is not gonna be a goodwill/handshake/sign-an-NDA situation. When the lawyers and insurance companies get involved, any tendency toward human compassion and right/wrong goes out the window. It's very sad in every aspect.