Awesome landing at LHR

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

It's done every day, and Airbus does approve of landing the 380 in a crab, though they do have a recommend drift-angle limit of 5 degrees (per the link you cited).

Landing in a crab in heavy x-winds prevents the need for excessive bank to keep it on the center-line, which in turn reduces the chances of a wing-tip/nacelle strike.
Also, the potential consequences of an early and/or an "over" de-crab are probably higher than landing in a crab.

Obviously the landing in the OP video is on the extreme side, and still not pretty, regardless of flare technique.

5* isn't much of a crab angle, that looked closer to 20*. I could be wrong.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

They should have. That was a HORRIBLE example of a cross wind landing.. They were lucky no damage occurred and I'm sure the people sitting in the back row knocked heads as that tail violently swung around to straight ahead....

Not pretty, for sure. Probably should pushed to TOGA and aborted. That said, they should probably get a little bit of a pass due to the totality of the circumstances/factors. Per the description, it happened recently during Storm Dennis, which was pretty nasty and pummeled the UK. They were probably seeing 50+ knot crosswinds, and I imagine none of the close alternates were any better (and who knows what their fuel situation was). Several go-arounds that day, and LHR was shut down shortly after as well, so they were the likely among the last of the cleared approaches. Also, the camera perspective may be exaggerating things a bit there.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by flipper35

5* isn't much of a crab angle, that looked closer to 20*. I could be wrong.

Yeah, 5* is just the FCOM/FCTM "guideline". Landing in a crab is part of the cert, so it has to be capable of doing it.

So, it could have been closer to 20* (but as mentioned above, it could also be exaggerated due to the camera angle/perspective/zoom). And again, the consequences of not getting a de-crab right in a super-heavy (4x engine) jet, in severe x-wind conditions, are potentially a lot more serious/severe that landing in a crab.

If you are seeing 45+ knot x-wind, the second you de-crab, you are immediately pushed off center. If you over do it, and/or do it a touch early, and/or float it a bit, you could be in the grass. The induced roll also increases the chance of an upwind wing-tip and/or nacelle strike. Doing it a bit late can be bad as well (still kicking the rudder after T/D).

[daepp]

Originally Posted by vmax

Amazing video.

What's with the Brits - they can't make that runway a little flatter for the pilots? Sheesh!

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by daepp

What's with the Brits - they can't make that runway a little flatter for the pilots? Sheesh!

I wonder if it's a telescopic lens making the runway look more wavy than it is.

[450knotOffice]

The Heavy and Super Heavy four engine jets (B747 and A380) are basically landed flat in any crosswind due to the high probability of one of the outboard engines and wingtip striking the ground if a more conventional de-crab/wing down touchdown is attempted. Heck, even in most twin engine jets (those with wing mounted engines, anyway), the amount of bank we can use in a crosswind touchdown is very limited due to the fact that we'll drag an engine. Therefore, all of these aircraft are designed to land in a crab in some very very strong crosswinds. It's not pretty and most GA pilots are typically appalled at the apparent total lack of proper crosswind landing technique. However, as said, proper crosswind technique in these jets IS to land in a crab. Forward momentum coupled with the aircraft's center of gravity being forward of the main gear at touchdown forcefully rotates the nose around, and any pilot worthy of the name will instinctively rudder it straight at touchdown, as you saw.

(My credentials to make these comments: Major airline captain with approximately 21,000 hours (mostly airline ops) and a rated pilot for 35 years. )

[450knotOffice]

Originally Posted by daepp

What's with the Brits - they can't make that runway a little flatter for the pilots? Sheesh!

Mexico City's runway 05L is the probably the worst I can ever recall in that regard. It has a huge dip and rise right at about the point where you're just about to rotate in most jets. I've had the nose come off the ground (slightly) and had to put it back down again.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Forward momentum coupled with the aircraft's center of gravity being forward of the main gear at touchdown forcefully rotates the nose around

Is it the tires kissing the pavement that forcefully rotates the aircraft?

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by daepp

What's with the Brits - they can't make that runway a little flatter for the pilots? Sheesh!

Ocean waves go right under the island. If it gets really bad, they use the trap cables.

[Rikao4]

early trap cables..

Rika

[flipper35]

Clover and Lily airfields. Nothing new for the Brits.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by john70t

-Every runway gets turned into a gigantic lazy-susan and turns into the wind.

Funny you mentioned that. Naval Air Station North Island had a circular runway back in the old days. See the wind sock, steer plane to pointy end of said wind sock.



They sprayed tar on the dirt to keep the dust down...huge environment issues to this day.

Originally Posted by KNS

I wonder, if/when the day comes, how an automated, pilotless plane will handle those conditions.

They actually do excellent. I managed the Navy's Globalhawk UAS, the Triton, used to go out to the LSO shack at Pax to watch it land. Hit the same spot every time.

[Rikao4]

watching that thing land ..
I recall something from the old days..
and Hawk will remember this ..
"Brakes off..??. Brakes off..
and a big chirrrrrrrrrrrrrp and..
lift......

Rika

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

watching that thing land ..
I recall something from the old days..
and Hawk will remember this ..
"Brakes off..??. Brakes off..
and a big chirrrrrrrrrrrrrp and..
lift......

Rika

1000 percent!!!

Not me, of course

[rattlsnak]

Their training dept. is NOT happy...

https://onemileatatime.com/etihad-a380-crosswind-landing/

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Their training dept. is NOT happy...

https://onemileatatime.com/etihad-a380-crosswind-landing/

Yeah, I think that was posted a while back. Meh...not pretty, but they got it down just under the wire in typhoon conditions.

Reminds me of this TUI 757 driver crabbing it in during a previous nasty UK winter storm.
She did a better job and still faced some criticism for not aborting/diverting, and the (completely fine) technique:



Though at least in her case, admin seized on the opportunity with a public "atta-girl" instead of a reprimand (who knows what was said behind closed doors).
And to be fair, the Etihad 380 drivers' reprimand was never intended to be public.

[flatbutt]

I'm no pilot but I've been on some rough flights. On the few rough landings I've experienced, and I've been on a few crabs, I've always made a point of thanking the flight crew as I walked safely off of the plane. It's wild to see the runway centerline out of your passenger window!

[Eric Coffey]

And here's what happens when a de-crab goes wrong:

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

And here's what happens when a de-crab goes wrong:

I'd still get to go home under my own power.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

I'd still get to go home under my own power.