Chloroquine?

[tadd]

dad:
Sounds like a run around answer to me... if the French and Chinese papers were to be believed.

I don't get the anecdotal bit. If its a study, you got numbers for chosen FOMs. They also had way more people in their study, so any improvement should be obvious sooner.

[group911@aol.co]

A far more likely treatment than the current hoax.

https://reut.rs/2RbYUmi

[tadd]

Now that’s going old school...

[93nav]

"No Evidence of Rapid Antiviral Clearance or Clinical Benefit with the Combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin in Patients with Severe COVID-19 Infection"

French study.

There is a link to a short PDF at the bottom of the webpage.

In summary, despite a reported antiviral activity of chloroquine against COVID-19 in vitro, we found no evidence of a strong antiviral activity or clinical benefit of the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for the treatment of our hospitalized patients with severe COVID-19. Ongoing randomized clinical trials with hydroxychloroquine should provide a definitive answer regarding the alleged efficacy of this combination and will assess its safety.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858

[Aurel]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

A far more likely treatment than the current hoax.

https://reut.rs/2RbYUmi

You call a hoax something that has been proven to work, in separate reports ranging from 80 to 699 patients.
Then you present an alternative which is not proven to work, and does not have any data supporting it.
Isn’t that showing a little of **cough**TDS**cough** bias ?

[Aurel]

Originally Posted by 93nav

"No Evidence of Rapid Antiviral Clearance or Clinical Benefit with the Combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin in Patients with Severe COVID-19 Infection"

French study.

There is a link to a short PDF at the bottom of the webpage.

In summary, despite a reported antiviral activity of chloroquine against COVID-19 in vitro, we found no evidence of a strong antiviral activity or clinical benefit of the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for the treatment of our hospitalized patients with severe COVID-19. Ongoing randomized clinical trials with hydroxychloroquine should provide a definitive answer regarding the alleged efficacy of this combination and will assess its safety.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858

“There were 7 men and 4 women with a mean age of 58.7 years (range: 20-77), 8 had significant comorbidities associated with poor outcomes (obesity: 2; solid cancer: 3; hematological cancer: 2; HIV-infection: 1).”

How can they write a paper and make conclusions with such a small sample?
The original study from Marseilles had 72 patients if I recall correctly.
Statistically, this study is meaningless.

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by Aurel

“There were 7 men and 4 women with a mean age of 58.7 years (range: 20-77), 8 had significant comorbidities associated with poor outcomes (obesity: 2; solid cancer: 3; hematological cancer: 2; HIV-infection: 1).”

How can they write a paper and make conclusions with such a small sample?
The original study from Marseilles had 72 patients if I recall correctly.
Statistically, this study is meaningless.

OK, this is almost comical. 90% of the participants (all 11 of them) we're ALREADY using oxygen because of COVID-19? And almost half them had Cancer (solid tumor or blood-borne) or AIDS? Did they forget to test it on the the guy who was being treated for gangrene? Talk about stacking the deck.


There were 7 men and 4 women with a mean age of 58.7 years (range: 20-77), 8 had significant comorbidities associated with poor outcomes (obesity: 2; solid cancer: 3; hematological cancer: 2; HIV-infection: 1). At the time of treatment initiation, 10/11 had fever and received nasal oxygen therapy. Within 5 days, one patient died, two were transferred to the ICU. In one patient, hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin were discontinued after 4 days because of a prolongation of the QT interval from 405 ms before treatment to 460 and 470 ms under the combination. Mean through blood concentration of hydroxychloroquine was 678 ng/mL (range: 381-891) at days 3-7 after treatment initiation.

[group911@aol.co]

Originally Posted by Aurel

You call a hoax something that has been proven to work, in separate reports ranging from 80 to 699 patients.
Then you present an alternative which is not proven to work, and does not have any data supporting it.
Isn’t that showing a little of **cough**TDS**cough** bias ?

Yep

[tdw28210]

India is rescinding their ban on HCQ exports to the US.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-04-07/india-ship-hydroxychloroquine-u-s

"Under pressure from President Trump, the Indian government Tuesday lifted a ban on the export of hydroxychloroquine, paving the way for the anti-malaria drug to be shipped to the U.S. for use against the coronavirus."

[techweenie]

Both Sweden and France have stopped using chloroquine, as I understand it, because of side effects.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Both Sweden and France have stopped using chloroquine, as I understand it, because of side effects.

Nope - for France anyway, can't speak for sweden. It's being used extensively, especially in the major Marseille hospitals, and very successfully so....

Side effects, pff - chloroquine was available without prescription until 2 months ago in most of the world, and over a billion people have used it over past decades when travelling to Africa... The heart issues are super overblown and very unlikely on a 2 week treatment... I smell a pharma lobby with a more expensive pill to sell...

[tadd]

Is it helping? The ratio of deaths to recovered is 2:1 like the US.

News just said France had it’s deadliest day yet.

Clearly it ain’t working well...

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by tadd

Is it helping? The ratio of deaths to recovered is 2:1 like the US. News just said France had it’s deadliest day yet.
Clearly it ain’t working well...

And that's precisely because the same BS about Chloroquine side effects is happening there. Yet some doctors are rebelling and using it with great results, particulary in Marseille. Same Pr Raoult that just did a bigger study so that people can stop giving him **** about the first small one... I'm not saying for sure one way or another, none of us have the data or credentials to know, but there are plenty of reports of it being effective, and plenty of "news" reports against it with the totally BS heart issue argument (easy test, and almost never an issue short term) that make it looks like someone has a vested interest in a cheap drug not being the solution...

The only reason I'm cautious here is I lived in Africa and I took Chroloquine for 10 days many many times depending on where we traveled. Its use is so prevalent against malaria that it was not even a "prescription" till 2 months ago... now the media makes it sound like it's effing cyanide, please ! I know nothing but I know that is bullcrap - people have taken it for decades when traveling to malaria regions... You know when you see the news report on something you really know (porsches, whatever) and it's always worng ? That's how I'm feeling about this... An entire continent has been taking chloroquine for decades, like PEZ, and curiously penetration of Covid is low in Africa...

Just saying "let's see, shall we?"... For every "it doesn't work" article I can find one that says "it does" and often with better credentials included... My only point there is people dislike Trump (so do I for that matter) so his endorsement of chroloquine+ azythromicyn + those idiots who drank fishtank cleaner made it a political potato instead of a scientific potato. Even scientists have clans when it comes to this... I've listened to a lot of interviews and read stuff on Raoult and he sounds like knows his stuff and is one of the world's premier virologist, so let's wait and see what we hear... NYC will be a good test bed. Marseilles too...

[Aurel]

Let’s face it: Big Pharma has no vested interest in a cheap drug, because the big prize for them is a vaccine, that is mandatory and needs to be renewed every year, just like the flu vaccine.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/8/anthony-fauci-sets-stage-mandatory-vaccine/

[tdw28210]

Looks like the American Thoracic Society is now providing "guidance" on how to administer it.

https://www.mdmag.com/medical-news/american-thoracic-society-releases-temporary-covid19-guidance


"While the international task force notes these are suggestions and not recommendations, the 12-page guidance document titled, “COVID-19: Interim Guidance on Management Pending Empirical Evidence,” includes multiple suggestions on topics including management of critically ill patients and when it appears appropriate to prescribe hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine in patients with COVID-19."

[Por_sha911]

I don't get it. We know that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are found to be safe by the FDA. They are inexpensive, easy to produce and readily available right now. We also know that the initial studies show some success. Yet, some people are poo-pooing the idea of using it because there isn't 100% proof. Its not like the drugs are untested and may cause other problems. Why not give it a shot?

Dear God, chemo doesn't cure all cancer patients but they do it because it is the best hope we have at this time.

Lets not be like the MSM that delights in disaster because it bumps the ratings or certain politicians who are hoping to use it as a political pawn to gain advantage in November.

[tadd]

Por:
Both drugs are not ‘safe’, that is having a therapeutic dose well below side effect issues.

Working doses for malaria is a one time hit of 1200 mg if greatly sick. Maintenance dose is 300 mg/week.

Covid dosing was 400 mg/day by the Chinese, and 600 mg/day for the French paper. This is for 5-6 days. Half life of the drug is 45-55 days! So that is a LOT of medication in a patient and that much has significant side effects expanding the QT interval.

This stuff isn’t aspirin. Part of the reason it isn’t the primary for malaria anymore.

[Por_sha911]

Last I checked, COVID isn't safe either. It should be an option for the doctor and the patient to make.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Nope - for France anyway, can't speak for sweden. It's being used extensively, especially in the major Marseille hospitals, and very successfully so....

Side effects, pff - chloroquine was available without prescription until 2 months ago in most of the world, and over a billion people have used it over past decades when travelling to Africa... The heart issues are super overblown and very unlikely on a 2 week treatment... I smell a pharma lobby with a more expensive pill to sell...

Here's the story from Sweden (posted previously)

https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/carl-40-fick-kramp-och-syn-problem-av-coronamedicin/

Not everyone in France is excited about it:

https://www.newsweek.com/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-france-heart-cardiac-1496810

There's one main advocate for HCQ in France -- who has pushed some pretty unscientific "research."

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/29/more-on-cloroquine-azithromycin-and-on-dr-raoult

[Aurel]

More success stories of HCQ treatment:

Dr. Didier Raoult has now treated 1000 coronavirus patient with 99.3% success rate. Of the 1000 patients treatments, 20 patients went to the ICU and 7 patients died. Dr. Raoult said the side effects were trivial things like rash etc.

https://techstartups.com/2020/04/06/french-researcher-dr-didier-raoult-has-now-treated-1000-coronavirus-patient-with-99-3-success-rate/

The good news about hydroxychloroquine continues to pour in. Last week, Dr. William Grace, an oncologist affiliated with Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City, said they’ve not had any deaths in the hospital of close to a 100 patients

https://techstartups.com/2020/03/30/dr-william-grace-thanks-hydroxychloroquine-not-death-hospital/