Asian beat downs.

[rusnak]

^ I certainly agree with that.

Carelessly flinging around the accusation of "Racism" neither helps the truly oppressed, nor elevates the accuser to some position of authority or power. It backfires when used as a weapon intended to hurt, insult or elevate one's power. In other words, use the term carefully and sparingly.

When people are truly oppressed and in fear for their safety, they do not call attention to their station in life. They would rather go about their lives peacefully and be left alone. They do not stand up and point an accusatory finger. The arbiter of blame is the passage of time, when eventually the actions and intentions of the innocent can be seen by honest people.

[berettafan]

Terv that is an excellent post.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I expect some here will read this differently than others. But everyone should read it.

It is scary how points of it have become a blueprint over and over through recent history for leaders and public figures to point the compass needle in the wrong direction.

“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Winston Churchill

Which is why if everyone can't or doesn't want to get a bachelor of arts degree, we need better high school education. Pointing compasses incorrectly using the Internet and Social Media will ultimately doom the United States. Our enemies certainly know that. We should too.


United States Holocost Museum: Nazi Party Platform


Background

The Nazi Party Platform was a 25-point program for the creation of a Nazi state and society. Hitler presented the program at the Hofbräuhaus Beerhall in Munich, Germany on February 24, 1920.

The 25 points combined extreme nationalism, racial antisemitism, and socialist concepts with German outrage over the Versailles peace settlement following their defeat in World War I. The program called for German rejection of the Versailles Treaty and for the inclusion of all Germans (especially those living in Austria, Czechoslovakia, and Poland) into a Greater German state. The Nazis also publicly declared their intention to segregate Jews from "Aryan" German society and to abrogate the political, legal, and civil rights of Jews in Germany.

The 25 points also included also several measures designed to appeal to workers, the largest voting bloc in the Weimar Republic. These included calls for profit-sharing in large industries, the nationalization of trusts, free education, and an increase in pension payments.

After the Nazi Rise to Power

The 25 points remained the Nazi Party's official statement of goals, though in later years the Nazis ignored many points. Still, they achieved some of the goals. For example, they revoked German citizenship from Jews (the Nuremberg Race Laws) and excluded Jews from German society. Ultimately, the exclusion of Jews from society resulted in their deportation from Germany, which began in 1941.

Translation

(English translation of the 25-point program.1 German source text as published in Der Aufstieg der NSDAP in Augenzeugenberichten, 1974.)2

The Program of the German Workers’ Party is designed to be of limited duration. The leaders have no intention, once the aims announced in it have been achieved, of establishing fresh ones, merely in order to increase, artificially, the discontent of the masses and so ensure the continued existence of the Party.

1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Greater Germany on the basis of the right of national self-determination.

2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations, and the revocation of the peace treaties of Versailles and Saint-Germain.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle our surplus population.

4. Only members of the nation may be citizens of the State. Only those of German blood, whatever their creed, may be members of the nation. Accordingly, no Jew may be a member of the nation.

5. Non-citizens may live in Germany only as guests and must be subject to laws for aliens.

6. The right to vote on the State’s government and legislation shall be enjoyed by the citizens of the State alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the Reich, in the states or in the smaller localities, shall be held by none but citizens.

We oppose the corrupting parliamentary custom of filling posts merely in accordance with party considerations, and without reference to character or abilities.

7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.

8. All non-German immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who entered Germany after 2 August 1914 shall be required to leave the Reich forthwith.

9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.

10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.

We demand therefore:

11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.

The breaking of the slavery of interest

12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.

15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municipal orders.

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

19. We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law.

20. The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education (with the aim of opening up to every able and hard-working German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement). The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life. The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the notion of the State (through the study of civic affairs). We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State.

21. The State must ensure that the nation’s health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.

22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary [i.e. professional] army and the formation of a people’s army.

23. We demand legal warfare on deliberate political mendacity and its dissemination in the press. To facilitate the creation of a German national press we demand:

(a) that all editors of, and contributors to newspapers appearing in the German language must be members of the nation;

(b) that no non-German newspapers may appear without the express permission of the State. They must not be printed in the German language;

(c) that non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from participating financially in or influencing German newspapers, and that the penalty for contravening such a law shall be the suppression of any such newspaper, and the immediate deportation of the non-Germans involved.

The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden. We demand the legal prosecution of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural events which violate this demand.

24. We demand freedom for all religious denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence nor offend the moral feelings of the German race.

The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not commit itself to any particular denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health only from within on the basis of the principle: The common interest before self-interest.

25. To put the whole of this program into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states.

The leaders of the Party promise to work ruthlessly—if need be to sacrifice their very lives—to translate this program into action.

Last Edited: Oct 15, 2020
Author(s): United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Washington, DC

[island911]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Terv that is an excellent post.

Yes! rusnak too.

Originally Posted by 911pcars

What does it mean, that most discrimination happens at the individual level? ...

Who would you rather be born as, Dwayne 'the Rock' Johnson or Danny Divito? --both are successful actors, who even stared together. Who do you believe had tougher struggles? Which one was more 'privileged'?

[island911]

Again, most discrimination happens at the individual level

Most crying about discrimination happens at the group level.

Seems like it's become a sport - who can project the MOST pity for this or that group.

As a group, Asians do not need my pity. As a group they are smarter than the groups attacking any individuals within their group. Yet some (even outside that group) will still insist that I throw pity their way, just as BLM demanded I do for supposed "Black Lives."

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Yup. More of em, but not more important. Asians, Muslims, Jews, Latinos, Blacks, Uighurs, Gmong and other ethnic groups also. You do see a systemic pattern here in the "land of the free", yes?

Yes. Although probably much less than almost any country with such a diverse mix as we have here.

One has to wonder why the pattern shows that the perpetrator is generally (statistically) another minority (or the same)...not the majority. Why do you think the "marginalized'" are so quick to hurt other "marginalized" people? Do you think it is cultural, educational, or socio-economic?

[speeder]

This is a better than average discussion by PARF standards. Let's try to keep it up.

[thor66]

Originally Posted by island911

There is ZERO doubt in my mind that we have well-funded forces working to divide us.

are you being paid by one of them?

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

United States Holocost Museum: Nazi Party Platform

In addition to the above link, one should consider the larger historic context on minority oppression not only in Germany with their relation to Jews of yesterday and Turks in Germany today but as overseen in their Turkish WWI allies dealings with their own Armenian minority.

The German Connection
Genocide & Mass Violence
The Armenian Genocide
https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/german-connection

In notes written after a meeting with Young Turk leaders of the Committee of Union and Progress known as ‘Ittihad’, Max Scheubner-Richter, a German vice consul and commander of a joint German-Turkish special guerrilla force, described plans to “destroy” the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire.

The first item on this agenda concerns the liquidation of the Armenians. Ittihad will dangle before the Allies a specter of an alleged revolution prepared by the Armenian Dashnak party. Moreover, local incidents of social unrest and acts of Armenian self defense will deliberately be provoked and inflated and will be used as pretexts to effect the deportations. Once en route, however, the convoys will be attacked and exterminated by Kurdish and Turkish brigands, and in part by gendarmes, who will be instigated for that purpose by Ittihad.

Germany practiced on the Armenians though the Turks before executing their own plans on the Jews and Gypsy's.

A dress rehearsal.

As a primer for what happened between the wars, and in WWII in Germany one should watch The Eugenics Crusade a PBS documentary.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yes. Although probably much less than almost any country with such a diverse mix as we have here.

One has to wonder why the pattern shows that the perpetrator is generally (statistically) another minority (or the same)...not the majority. Why do you think the "marginalized'" are so quick to hurt other "marginalized" people? Do you think it is cultural, educational, or socio-economic?

British colonialism in America fostered a system advantageous to the ruling class while allowing immigrants begrudging liberties under the guise of "we know better". Native Americans were the first to feel that brunt - thereafter, a class structure that affected and was passed down to each new immigrant group.

The Brits didn't have anywhere near a majority when they decided to colonize the world. No. They didn't import their own countrymen to populate a country they just conquered to maintain power.

I sense a fear among the ruling party that once a "minority" population gains sufficient numbers, the tables will turn and they will then be oppressed. Yeah, that's a possibility. The wise solution for any govt. is to take steps so people aren't oppressed, that they feel the only recourse is to gain power and take revenge. That's why there's so much upheaval in other parts of the world. The ruling party has either done too little for their people and/or they've done too much to oppress them.

To continually blame minority groups for their station in life without bearing any responsibility for that situation is both myopic and ultimately self-defeating.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

The real question is, why has systemic racism been institutionalized in the United States.

and can it be extracted?

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

British colonialism in America fostered a system advantageous to the ruling class while allowing immigrants begrudging liberties. .....................

I forget which of the James May TV programs it was in, but he visits the UK, USA and Japan exploring the ways society is structured and resulted in influencing the design, engineering and production quality of automobiles.

In short the hierarchy of the British class system made for a bad marriage between management and labor in the 1960's, and to some extent these failings were reflected in the 1970's USA.

When James May went to Japan and rode around in a vintage Japanese car with a plant worker, former management member and engineer, the mutual respect and lack of animosity that helped create that car resulted in a better product.

It was all very interesting.

I've looked for a link to share but have not found one yet. Maybe somebody else familiar with that program can help us out.

This aspect I'm describing is about classism not racism, but illustrates the various stratification layers in societies around the world.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

The real question is, why has systemic racism been institutionalized in the United States.

and can it be extracted?

The real question is, why has systemic classism been institutionalized in the United States.

Definition of classism
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/classism

a belief that a person's social or economic station in society determines their value in that society

Definition of racism
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

The two terms above are intertwined in our society, I don't think we can tear them apart.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

The real question is, why has systemic racism been institutionalized in the United States.

and can it be extracted?

Because elites prefer equity to equality for the masses (they and their families can buy their way into positions and elite schools). A good example is college admissions which clearly have decided that admission should not be based on merit, but rather on race, sexual preference, etc.. Schools like Yale intentionally pass over much better qualified Asians for others. So do other schools, scholarship programs, etc..

Go back to a meritocracy...and stop using race and ethnicity as a crutch. Equal opportunity vice equal outcomes.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Go back to a meritocracy...and stop using race and ethnicity as a crutch.

I agree with that, as long as we are talking about suitability for the job. In other words, if you're talking about a business environment, you've got to look and act the part. You could no sooner be a White slob than an educated Turbin-wearing Punjab with a scruffy beard, or a Hispanic who doesn't speak English well. If you're working in retail, then you're selling to a customer. That customer wants to be able to communicate and trust you. If you're a Vietnamese nail salon, then stop speaking Vietnamese to co-workers in front of the paying customer who does not understand you. If you're a Hindu, put down the damn phone if you're behind the register ringing up customers. They should leave feeling happy and satisfied, not suspicious of being taken for granted and ripped off.

As far as racism or classism, you've got to ask if it's a problem for society at large, not just for a single group. Individual racism barely budges the needle for society. Do I care if a rich parent buys his or her kid a seat at USC as long as my kid gets into the U.C. school that better suits him? Probably not. Was I even concerned about USC anyway? Probably not. They determine the quality of the degree by who they graduate. It's not my problem as much as it is for the alumni of that school.

And I'm somewhat irked by the 8th grade treatment of "history" in this thread in general. All of this quaint talk of a "ruling class" as if 19th century Europe = 20th century USA. Ridiculous.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Because elites prefer equity to equality for the masses (they and their families can buy their way into positions and elite schools). A good example is college admissions which clearly have decided that admission should not be based on merit, but rather on race, sexual preference, etc.. Schools like Yale intentionally pass over much better qualified Asians for others. So do other schools, scholarship programs, etc..

Go back to a meritocracy...and stop using race and ethnicity as a crutch. Equal opportunity vice equal outcomes.

OK, that doesn't really mean anything and the argument is very complex, one example, not even a great one, isn't meaningful to the discussion. The problem is your own term, "qualified," which is subjective. So here we are. Asians sued Harvard over their implementation of racist policies, I don't recall how that turned out. But I do think there is a need for a school(s) that will only accept the academically best and brightest. Not everyone needs to be well-rounded.

But yes, my dream in life is to create a meritocracy. I only have 100 years left to do it, not looking good unless something happens in my 90s.

Anyway, a meritocracy requires a level playing field, otherwise there's no baseline to assess basis of ability. I'm sure you thought of that but were distracted by some crows flying away outside. So clearly a meritocracy is untenable at best with systemic racism in place.

[thor66]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Go back to a meritocracy...

back??

if you go back you get inherited elites, serfdom and slavery

my field and those related to it are as close as you can get to a meritocracy, and BTW it is full of Asians, and Asian-Americans

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by thor66

back??

if you go back you get inherited elites, serfdom and slavery

my field and those related to it are as close as you can get to a meritocracy, and BTW it is full of Asians, and Asian-Americans

Yep, obviously I meant the 1400s. My context could not have been clearer that I was not talking about more recent period. Not.

Grades and test scores should determine who gets into elite colleges. It should not be based on race, gender, etc.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

OK, that doesn't really mean anything and the argument is very complex, one example, not even a great one, isn't meaningful to the discussion. The problem is your own term, "qualified," which is subjective. So here we are. Asians sued Harvard over their implementation of racist policies, I don't recall how that turned out. But I do think there is a need for a school(s) that will only accept the academically best and brightest. Not everyone needs to be well-rounded.

But yes, my dream in life is to create a meritocracy. I only have 100 years left to do it, not looking good unless something happens in my 90s.

Anyway, a meritocracy requires a level playing field, otherwise there's no baseline to assess basis of ability. I'm sure you thought of that but were distracted by some crows flying away outside. So clearly a meritocracy is untenable at best with systemic racism in place.

It was the DOJ suing Yale because of clear evidence that Yale intentionally did not admit better qualified Asians solely due to the fact that they were Asian. The Biden DOJ just dropped suit (at the Supreme Court) without justification (alleging discrimination against white and Asian applicants). One can only hope the court still makes a decision.

While some may advantages...anything from being taller or brighter or growing up in a better school district, in the past, we strove to reduce subjectivity with objective measure. That is no longer the case..so we are going backwards...practicing racism using racism as an excuse.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yep, obviously I meant the 1400s. My context could not have been clearer that I was not talking about more recent period. Not.

Grades and test scores should determine who gets into elite colleges. It should not be based on race, gender, etc.

Why do we, society as a whole, continue to allow it to happen then? This goes from our top universities to the community colleges. I know some people got free rides based on the skin color, last names and social economic status. A full ride from undergrad to almost finishing her Master at USC but only had a 3.2 GPA out of high school. If my kids go to SC, I will be broke. Look at the higher up at a large school district like ours. Where are the Asians taken those positions? My friend whom I grew up with (Mexican American) has one of those fantastic desk jobs up there pulling in 160k. He tells me that Hispanic will move up just fine if they qualify because they are the majority now. Asians are dead last having almost no chance with white just one rung on top of the Asians. Don't tell me that there are no qualify white news anchor. In a couple of our local news stations, they are all minorities. I use to see city street crews being mainly white and Hispanics when I was a kid. Now they are all Hispanic. Don't tell me the white guy are too good for those type of jobs which they have no interest in? All its needed is a shovel to hold up one's head making 50-60 bucks an hour. If that's not race based, what is?