Another harmless dog suffering prejudice from people

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Pit bulls have minds of their own which some people naively think that they can shape and control, but guns and cars do not, so how are pits similar to the other two?


I've had a couple of run-ins with pits at the airport I work at - a couple years ago, some idiot people that live near the property had allowed their pit, and another dog I couldn't identify, to break out of their yard and they both advance on me agressively when I was out in the open; they got hosed down with pepper spray gel, from a supersized bottle I usually have with me for that purpose, and thankfully ran off howling in agony. More recently, another nearby owner had allowed a similar jail-break of a very big, dark gray pit and it trotted into the hanger where I was working and headed straight for me - I jumped into a customer aircraft and shut the door faster than I thought I was capable of.

Wondering why you made the comment "some idiot people" when the thread is about the dog.

Are you saying that humans are involved in this?

Not just humans.

"Idiots"?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by URY914

lol

lol and true as hell. Some dogs are pigs.

Any dog can be sweet until it's not.

[yellowline]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Better do the same thing with all the guns and cars Mr Higgins, think of the children.

Which is the reason I support the ability/right for normal people to own these dogs.

Like irresponsible firearms or vehicle operation, I also support owners being criminally charged and financially liable (or insured) when something goes wrong with the dog.


Don’t have money to make the victim whole? Break rocks in prison.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by yellowline

Which is the reason I support the ability/right for normal people to own these dogs.

Like irresponsible firearms or vehicle operation, I also support owners being criminally charged and financially liable (or insured) when something goes wrong with the dog.


Don’t have money to make the victim whole? Break rocks in prison.

That's not how the justice system works in America and I assume that even you know this. Maybe not. There is no mechanism for sending people to prison because they cannot pay a civil judgement. There is no debtor's prison in America.

There is also no mechanism for only allowing "normal people" to own a breed of dog. Like so many of the arguments I read on this forum, (especially in PARF), they rely on some fantasy utopian world where the argument maker and his like-minded cohorts can control the behavior of everyone else, including people that do not share your views. It might as well be Alice in Wonderland or Back to the Future. Just nonsense.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by speeder

That's not how the justice system works in America and I assume that even you know this. Maybe not. There is no mechanism for sending people to prison because they cannot pay a civil judgement. There is no debtor's prison in America.

There is also no mechanism for only allowing "normal people" to own a breed of dog. Like so many of the arguments I read on this forum, (especially in PARF), they rely on some fantasy utopian world where the argument maker and his like-minded cohorts can control the behavior of everyone else, including people that do not share your views. It might as well be Alice in Wonderland or Back to the Future. Just nonsense.

Much like the proponents of confiscatory gun laws.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by speeder

There is also no mechanism for only allowing "normal people" to own a breed of dog.

But there is a mechanism that doesn't allow private citizens to own rocket launchers and full auto weapons. Pit Bulls should be regulated like full auto weapons because (as already stated) their breeding has been designed to make them volatile and attack. Also as stated (and seen thousands of times) they are sweet and loving until they're not and then they are built to do severe damage.
If a licensed gun owner accidentally shoots and kills someone innocent, they go to prison for a long time. This is true even if they were justified in defending themselves but a stray bullet kills a bystander. I would like to see the same for Pit Bull owners. If the dog goes berserk, make the owner guilty of manslaughter. If that happened, I bet a lot of folks won't be so confident that little poopsy is harmless and wouldn't hurt anyone.

[unclebilly]

This sweet, sweet dog has bit my son more than once, bit a courier, bit my neighbor…



She has never learned to not chase cows, and barks like crazy at the school bus 2X a day… she is an idiot.

And then there was our last dog, a pit bull cross… she never bit anyone, did whatever we asked her to do and was the best dog ever…

[Por_sha911]

C'mon unclebilly you know better. Any dog can be a problem but some are genetically geared to be problems.

If I knew that my neighborsr dog was a problem with biting people and it bit me, I'd sue you for negligence because you knew that this dog is prone to biting people.

[Crowbob]

We had a Doberman when we lived out in the boonies with our newborn and toddler. A woman shows up at the door for a scheduled meeting with my wife. Wife opens the door a crack and says, ‘Just a minute I need to put the dog away before you come in.’ Lady says, ‘Nah, I love dogs! And quickly reaches for the door knob.

Oops.

Very minor injury, thank God. No lawsuit, either.

Dog thought he was #2 in the pack and #1 when I wasn’t around. We put the dog down the next day. If that dog wanted to it could drag my wife around on the leash without effort. He was the most loving, athletic and smart dog I ever had. But he couldn’t stop guarding us with his life.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Baz

Wondering why you made the comment "some idiot people" when the thread is about the dog.

Are you saying that humans are involved in this?

Not just humans.

"Idiots"?

One hundred percent, Baz - those dogs are just doing what is in their natures and it is the fault of the fools who own them when they are irresponsible and allow them out where they can then do harm (aka - I do not blame the dog for being itself).

That said, I will never try to reason with a pit, or any other large, aggressive dog - if one advances on me, I'll do whatever it takes to change his/her mind for them in a hurry (or hide in an airplane if I'm unarmed ).

[Arthropraxis]

I have been following this thread for a few days. I have to say you anti breed guys sound similar to me as the anti gun people. All I have ever owned are bully breed dogs. My current dog is an American Bulldog/Bull Mastiff/Pitbull mix. None of my dogs have ever shown aggressive or snapped. Bully breed dogs are very common where I live, Southeast. They make great farm/cattle dogs and hog hunting/holding dogs or ,gasp, family dogs like mine.
Are there bad dogs? Sure. Just like there are bad people. My Mom's dog bites everybody with no warning but it is a lapdog so it gets a pass.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

But there is a mechanism that doesn't allow private citizens to own rocket launchers and full auto weapons. Pit Bulls should be regulated like full auto weapons because (as already stated) their breeding has been designed to make them volatile and attack. Also as stated (and seen thousands of times) they are sweet and loving until they're not and then they are built to do severe damage.
If a licensed gun owner accidentally shoots and kills someone innocent, they go to prison for a long time. This is true even if they were justified in defending themselves but a stray bullet kills a bystander. I would like to see the same for Pit Bull owners. If the dog goes berserk, make the owner guilty of manslaughter. If that happened, I bet a lot of folks won't be so confident that little poopsy is harmless and wouldn't hurt anyone.

I don't disagree with you at all but just wanted to add that people are charged with serious crimes up to and including murder for dog attacks. It's rare but there was a case in San Francisco a few years ago where two Cannarsie(?) dogs attacked and killed a woman in the hallway of an apartment building and the owners are doing long prison sentences, if not mistaken.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Arthropraxis

I have been following this thread for a few days. I have to say you anti breed guys sound similar to me as the anti gun people.

Uhhh... no...

Guns have no will of their own and are completely incapable of acting on their own volition. They are completely at the will, and at all times under the control of, a human. That human, be it the owner of the firearm, someone granted possession by its owner, or some unauthorized person in possession of that firearm exerts their will through that firearm.

Dogs have their own will.

Yes, there are those who have a hard time making this distinction. Interestingly, they tend to be more anti-gun than anti-pit bull or other dangerous breed. They often live under the insane delusion that guns do, indeed, act on their own. "Gun violence" is a term they embrace, although guns do not, on their own, commit violent acts. Their owners do. Yet, when confronted with the very demonstrable fact that there are breeds predisposed to violence, they revert to some notion that there really isn't such a thing, it's only "irresponsible owners".

In other words, in the former case, an inanimate object commits the act of violence, independent of its owner. In the latter case, a living, breathing, thinking, self determinant being is not responsible for the violent act, its owner is.

I find that a rather curious line of thought.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Arthropraxis

I have been following this thread for a few days. I have to say you anti breed guys sound similar to me as the anti gun people. All I have ever owned are bully breed dogs. My current dog is an American Bulldog/Bull Mastiff/Pitbull mix. None of my dogs have ever shown aggressive or snapped. Bully breed dogs are very common where I live, Southeast. They make great farm/cattle dogs and hog hunting/holding dogs or ,gasp, family dogs like mine.
Are there bad dogs? Sure. Just like there are bad people. My Mom's dog bites everybody with no warning but it is a lapdog so it gets a pass.

Careful, don’t let your lifetime of experience with the breeds give you a false impression that you know more about them than the self righteous, non-dog owning American that has never even met one.

Pitbull’s are the AR-15’s of the dog world.

90% of dog owners have no business owning a dog. They just think they do.

And, with that, I’m done with another one of these stupid threads.

[Tobra]

You have no business telling me what kind of car, gun or dog I will own. These are all items I can legally own. If you think you do, you are confused about what country you're in. The end

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Most breeds require zero training to not eat children.

Genetics comes well before training.

But yet golden retrievers are responsible for more attacks than anything else.
Kill em all I say.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Tobra

You have no business telling me what kind of car, gun or dog I will own. These are all items I can legally own. If you think you do, you are confused about what country you're in. The end

There are hundreds of laws concerning car ownership and gun ownership in America. Maybe you're the one who is confused about what country you are in?

There are also plenty of laws wrt pet ownership. You cannot own a lion or a hyena in most places in America. Banning a type of dog known to show "snap aggression" and kill children and other humans is not a stretch at all and has already been done in many places...in the United States. It's called public safety...your rights end where mine begin. My right to be able to walk down the street without being attacked by a viscous dog overrides your right to own a viscous dog.

I get that you might own a pit bull that is a nice dog and has never shown aggression. I've seen hundreds of them behaving well, at the time. Some are even gentle dogs, despite being bred to be the opposite. The stats don't lie wrt attacks on people, though, especially children. They are a public safety risk that is unacceptable and therefore must be contained somehow.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Alan A

But yet golden retrievers are responsible for more attacks than anything else.
Kill em all I say.

Show me the stories of GR dogs "snapping" and killing children in their own household. Having grown up with them in the house, they are bred for the opposite behavior. They are capable of biting, (any dog is), but it's not in their nature, generally speaking.

[aschen]

Kinda timely. I'm not getting in the middle of this but we have been looking for a family dog for the last couple days. I spent both sat and Sunday in animal shelters.

It is really shocking what percentage of the dogs are pitbul mixes. I guess they are hard to find homes for.

We walked a very sweet 8mo mix dog. She was listed as boxer/lab mix but she her jawline and face shape looked pitbullesq to me. I knew it was probably an insensitive question, but I asked the worker if in her experience she looked like a pitbull mix. I really want nothing to do with one, I have 3 small kids and even if my suspicions are completely irrational I really don't want a pitbull mix. It is just one of the requiremts of a dozen we have trying to find a good family dog.

Anyways I got a 10 min dissertation by the worker on the joys of pitbull ownership and the finer points of what the term pitbull actually means. Fell completely on deaf ears though as I am standing there with 3 small children trying to find a suitable gentle dog not really looking for a primer on dog genetics.

[URY914]

There's a big box pet store that brings in rescue dogs on Saturdays for possible adoption. They put them in kennels in front of the store. I swear they all look like they are pit-mix of some sort. My wife doesn't even like walking past them.