Miami condo collapse

[JackDidley]

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by dad911

Now that the govt has made a decision to take and destroy the remaining units, do those owners get reimbursed for their pre-collapse values? Who pays for the cleanup, who owns the remaining property?

The property ownership will remain in the hands of the association at least for now. If the city paid for demolition and clean up it will most likely have liens until it gets paid.

Insurance pays replacement cost not "value". It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Insurance does not typically pay for losses due to lack of maintenance. Hidden or latent defects are typically covered so long as the damage is from a covered peril.

It seems the structural issues with this building are well document have existed for several years and conveyed to the association so they have knowledge of the problems.

The building no doubt is inspected by the insurance company on at least every other year for insurability.

However "collapse" is not a covered peril in many insurance policies.

The part of the building that remained standing and intentionally imploded, I think those people may be SOL all the way around. The building may have been structurally unsound either due to the collapse or the structural issues due to lack of maintenance and imploded. But none of those issues are "covered perils". That portion of the building was also technically undamaged.

Lastly, if the association and/or unit policies had a building ordinance or law endorsement there may be some relief from insurance in that regard.

[URY914]

^^^ So basically they should be thankful that they're alive but they're SOL if they survived. It proves how close we all are to life changing danger or death without us realizing it.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by URY914

^^^ So basically they should be thankful that they're alive but they're SOL if they survived. It proves how close we all are to life changing danger or death without us realizing it.

I think it goes without saying they should all be thankful they are alive. Yes some will be SOL. Tenants and gusts will have recourse against owners and the association. Some owners may have recourse against the association/board depending on if the board acted in accordance with FL condominium law and the master deed and by-laws. They may not be completely SOL. There is still value in the land and they are still legal owners. We don't know how this whole thing is going to play out yet. But one option may be the association votes to sell the property and those people and estates get their respective percentage. Another may be they vote to rebuild? They get a unit?

What has been repeatedly misstated in this thread is the hiring of the "association". The unit owners are the association. The owners then in accordance with the condominium documents elect the board of directors. The board is elected to run/manage the property in accordance with FL condo law and the master deed and by-laws. If the board did not follow FL law and the MD/BL there could be some recourse through Directors and Officers coverage.

One post further back indicates the board did call a meeting regarding a special assessment for repairs and the owners voted it down. Several board members resigned as a result. If this is accurate this is where owners will be SOL for sure. They won't even be able to sue the board. Well they will sue but unlikely they will prevail.

But the lawyers will make money.

Yes we all are that close in many ways. Could be a bank failure, the stock market collapse. Heck the insolvency of an insurance company even if the loss is covered (Hurricanes Andrew and Sandy). A pandemic caused by China, there are all sorts of thigs. Everything has risk there are no guarantees in life.

[GH85Carrera]

I would assume some of the residents had wall safes or even gun safes. I wonder if any contents in a safe would have survived and can ever be returned to the owners.

To have your residence and all the contents just gone, and no insurance for that loss is devastating to a financial future.

I have never wanted a condo, and for sure never will. My house is insured for all reasonable risks. The things it is not insured against it earthquakes, or tsunamis. I have no worries about either event hitting in Oklahoma City.

For the condo owners of that building to not only be homeless, but all clothing, and the "stuff" of a lifetime to be gone is sad. And that only applies to the lucky ones that are still alive.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I would assume some of the residents had wall safes or even gun safes. I wonder if any contents in a safe would have survived and can ever be returned to the owners.

To have your residence and all the contents just gone, and no insurance for that loss is devastating to a financial future.

I have never wanted a condo, and for sure never will. My house is insured for all reasonable risks. The things it is not insured against it earthquakes, or tsunamis. I have no worries about either event hitting in Oklahoma City.

For the condo owners of that building to not only be homeless, but all clothing, and the "stuff" of a lifetime to be gone is sad. And that only applies to the lucky ones that are still alive.

People don't understand condominium ownership that is the big problem. As a single family homeowner we make our own decisions. In condominium ownership decisions are made by committee and/or majority vote.

I have little doubt this building was insured for "all reasonable risks" known as Special form coverage. This coverage was once known as "all risk" but was deemed misleading as there are exclusions, as you noted Earth Movement, flood as well as "collapse" and others. Special form means you are covered for everything but what is specifically excluded in the policy wording.

I would suggest you read your policy as you are not covered for far more than just earthquake and Tsunami which are probably defined as "earth movement" such as a sinkhole or other forms of subsidence, a Tsunami falls under flood. Unless you purchased a separate flood policy you do not have flood coverage.

[GH85Carrera]

We are at 1,200 feet above sea level and 600 miles from the ocean with the Arbuckle mountain range between the ocean and us. Asteroid strikes are more likely than tsunamis for me.

Oklahoma had a series of earthquakes from oil well waste water disposal wells and everyone started asking questions about earthquake insurance. It has to be pretty catastrophic earthquake damage to be covered if we even had it, and we don't. The disposal wells were stopped or slowed way down and the earthquakes dissipated. We had no damage at all from the biggest of the quakes.

We are on top of a gently sloping hill, made of clay for at lease 200+ feet deep. No possibility of a sinkhole or flood. We indeed have coverage from fires, even wildfires, and those are unlikely. We have some trees, but no one would call it a forest. Tornadoes are the biggest threat, but they are very low probability.

We have a normal household policy, and no association to dictate maintenance of the house. Just our own funds to pay for it, but no condo association fees to pay.

I just can't imagine having everything but the clothes I am wearing gone. All our possessions and the home just gone. One has to feel sympathy for them, and they are the lucky ones that are still alive.

[drcoastline]

I think you missed my point? I will leave it at this, I am sure your policy doesn't have listed in Exclusions Earthquake and Tsunami.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

I think you missed my point? I will leave it at this, I am sure your policy doesn't have listed in Exclusions Earthquake and Tsunami.

I have specific policies for oddball **** like Live Oak roots clogging the main sewer line so I'm not on the hook for tearing up the street to fix it. A big thank you to my neighbors who had to pay for the heads up on that one.

Then I have $2M umbrella that covers everything we could not think of to worry about cause sometimes you don't know what you are supposed to know until it's too late and you are left with a big bill while muttering "if only I'd known".

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

I think you missed my point? I will leave it at this, I am sure your policy doesn't have listed in Exclusions Earthquake and Tsunami.

It indeed excludes earthquakes, one separate page all about earthquakes, and a phone number to call if I want to add earthquake coverage.

Tsunamis, asteroids, and extraterrestrial alien attacks, bigfoot, and polar bear or lion attacks are not listed as the odds are so low that they ain't gonna happen. It may well have some legalese about those types of events, but I never read it that thoroughly.

We do have an umbrella policy for the weird events and it is fairly cheap.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

My YT newfeed is filled with Condo's for sale from Champlain towers

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

I have specific policies for oddball **** like Live Oak roots clogging the main sewer line so I'm not on the hook for tearing up the street to fix it. A big thank you to my neighbors who had to pay for the heads up on that one.

Then I have $2M umbrella that covers everything we could not think of to worry about cause sometimes you don't know what you are supposed to know until it's too late and you are left with a big bill while muttering "if only I'd known".

Yes, both of which are forms of liability policies so you are not on the hook financially for damage caused by you or your property to someone else or their property.

The one covers your financial responsibility to the utility company should your tree damage their sewer line. The umbrella covers excess liability should the underlying policies not be sufficient coverage. Ensure all your underlying policies have the minimums required to trigger the umbrella.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

It indeed excludes earthquakes, one separate page all about earthquakes, and a phone number to call if I want to add earthquake coverage.

Tsunamis, asteroids, and extraterrestrial alien attacks, bigfoot, and polar bear or lion attacks are not listed as the odds are so low that they ain't gonna happen. It may well have some legalese about those types of events, but I never read it that thoroughly.

We do have an umbrella policy for the weird events and it is fairly cheap.

I don't doubt your policy exclude earthquakes. I said the policy probably states earth movement is excluded not an earthquake an earthquake is a form of earth movement. Earth movement is a broader exclusion. I also don't doubt an example is included in the policy which references an earthquake as a form of earth movement that would be excluded.

Again, I am sure your policy doesn't specifically exclude a Tsunami but excludes flood. a Tsunami is a flooding event.

Your post #327 references earthquakes. You describe them as an earthquake. They were not earthquakes it was earth movement as a result of the removal of the water below the surface.

"We do have an umbrella policy for the weird events and it is fairly cheap." Weird events? Like what?

I never read it that thoroughly. You may want to read it a little more thoroughly before you find out to late you don't have what you think you have.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

My YT newfeed is filled with Condo's for sale from Champlain towers

Did you see the pool deck damage?

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

Oy vey (Yiddish: אױ װײ‎) is a Yiddish phrase expressing dismay or exasperation

How many times in those condo board meetings was this term used???

Again culture counts and in turn has consequences.

Wouldn't of happened in Japan, just sayin

Yes it would. One of the problems in Japan at least until Kobe (Great Hanshin earthquake), was not wanting to insult the ancestors who's building codes were lacking.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

Did you see the pool deck damage?

I missed it the first time.
wow. yeah.

[jyl]

Were any survivors ever found? From the collapsed part of the building? I don’t mean people who were in the part that didn’t collapse.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

I missed it the first time.
wow. yeah.

I missed it too (watched it on an iPhone.)

Can you elaborate?

[dad911]

Originally Posted by jyl

Were any survivors ever found? From the collapsed part of the building? I don’t mean people who were in the part that didn’t collapse.

Only a few, and within the first few hours.

[jyl]

Some good insurance experience here, so let me throw out this question: will we see a wave of insurers cancelling policies on older Florida condos now, or as the suddenly urgent and stringent 40 year inspections happen? If you’re an insurer, aren’t you going to obtain and examine every such inspection report and yank coverage if anything at all looks even a little amiss? There’s plenty of buildings to insure, why mess with 40+ year old condos?

And some good engineering experience, so another question: will there be enough engineering firms willing to do the 40 year inspections? If you’re a peer of Frank Moriboto (sp), and see him sucked into a massive hell of lawsuits for his thorough 2018 report, do you want to take that risk yourself? Indemnification or waiver of claims by the condo association won’t protect you, almost nothing you can say in your report will prevent your being sued, and the fee for inspections surely isn’t enough to be worth jeopardizing your future?