Miami condo collapse

[brshap]

Originally Posted by john70t

If anything good results from this tragedy, it will be higher standards of inspection.
(I'm sure cities will be more proactive in the future)
But when a quorum of owners decide against preventative maintenance, when does the responsibility shift?

If owners decline to make repairs and the building is not up to code it is the duty of the engineer or inspector to report it to the building department. The building department can force the owners to act or risk their home being condemned.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Zeke

More like a surveyor. Inspectors know the building code and most of them are quite good at citing the codes. They are not trained nor required to be engineers.

In my experience, FL state has licensed independent 'threshold inspectors' that are licensed by the state, and hired by the property owners. Local inspectors do not typically inspect structure of 'threshold buildings' https://fbpe.org/what-are-threshold-building-inspectors/

It's not a good situation IMHO, after dealing with our condo concrete restoration.

Feces is hitting the blades in Florida. Key west is looking at every 3 and more story building in town, and is requiring owners to hire threshold inspectors for 20% of them so far.

I'm glad I bailed out of there.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by brshap

If owners decline to make repairs and the building is not up to code it is the duty of the engineer or inspector to report it to the building department. The building department can force the owners to act or risk their home being condemned.

8ish years ago, our condo board in Florida hid failed inspection reports from threshold inspectors for close to 10 years, until a 2 million dollar job became 8+. As I said in prior posts, the only reason they finally did the repairs was under threat of town pulling COs, when an owner finally reported chunks of their balcony falling. Even after that, they were shopping for an inspector that would minimize the expense, and organized a recall election to remove a president that wanted to proceed sooner.

[nota]

there are very good reasons they are called condo-maniacs

[URY914]

One thing leads to another don't it....


https://news.yahoo.com/engineer-avenue-next-collapsed-florida-114800791.html

"All that remains of the Champlain building are the walls of the underground parking garage, around a hollowed-out foundation, and Kilsheimer says that without more support for those walls, traffic could make them collapse, with parts of the street falling into the void."

[GH85Carrera]

Fill the hole with debris from the building to prevent it filling with water or collapsing. That property will be in litigation for decades. The only value it has is the location, and that scrap of asset will be fought over for many years. Any future building will have to dig out all the remaining concrete, and start from scratch.

[HobieMarty]

https://youtu.be/2DmPcIzsQtM

At the beginning of this video he states that the floor of that garage area is covered in salt water again. Just shows that the place had a serious issue with salt water intrusion from the beginning.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Fill the hole with debris from the building to prevent it filling with water or collapsing. That property will be in litigation for decades. The only value it has is the location, and that scrap of asset will be fought over for many years. Any future building will have to dig out all the remaining concrete, and start from scratch.

I can't imagine getting anything built there for years. No one is going to live in a place they believe is built on quicksand. Units would have to be priced way under market.. but can a builder can make that profitable.?

[dad911]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

I can't imagine getting anything built there for years. No one is going to live in a place they believe is built on quicksand. Units would have to be priced way under market.. but can a builder can make that profitable.?

I bet there is already a plan for that property. There was a rush to demo the remaining units, control was pulled from the owners weeks ago and given to the courts.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/14/judge-miami-condo-collapse-site-sale

https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/07/23/judge-compensation-surfside-collapse-survivors-victims-families/

Hanzman said the families will get a minimum of $150 million in compensation initially. That includes insurance on the condo building and the expected proceeds from a sale of the property where the structure once stood.

150 million $$ for the victims. For a self-inflicted wound.

I'd say charge them for the cleanup, pay off any mortgages, split anything left equally amongst the heirs of the deceased.

Anyone on record fighting the special assessment should get nothing.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by dad911

150 million $$ for the victims. For a self-inflicted wound.

I'd say charge them for the cleanup, pay off any mortgages, split anything left equally amongst the heirs of the deceased.

Anyone on record fighting the special assessment should get nothing.

Agreed.

$150 million....initially...sez the judge...and the math doesn't add up.
Where do the rest come from? Taxpayers?

There is only $50 m of insurance.
Does the other $100 m come from a theoretical sale of the lot?
And the banks are still owed their past-due mortgages, insurance or not.

[nota]

wonder who pays for the demo
rubble search for bodys
rubble search for the cause of the fall
rubble removal transport and storage

btw town E# guy said the outer walls of the garage sub-grade may fall and needs work prevent
wonder who pays for that

yes lot is worth 100m ''they said''

[David]

I believe the fed covered the first 30 days of expenses.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by David

I believe the fed covered the first 30 days of expenses.

I wonder if that is what drove the rush to blow up the remaining units.

[VINMAN]

My USAR team was down there. The remaining building was taken down due to concerns over instability and hazard to personnel conducting operations.

And yeah FEMA pretty much picks up a huge nut of the $$


.

[dad911]

Thank you Vinny.

[jyl]

I get that the public has to pay for the immediate response so that it gets done, but those expenses should be added to the damages claims. When the land is sold, the taxpayer can get paid back.

I don’t see why the condo owners should get any special financial relief. Their property, their responsibility, and they were amply warned.

[HobieMarty]

I would not live in anything built on that piece of property. From what I understand, the surrounding buildings have not experienced the salt water issues that this property experienced. So, did this building not have adequate water proofing, or is there something else going on with this piece of property? The way the water table rises and falls with the tides there, a below grade parking garage doesn't sound like a very good idea to me.

I wonder if there is some sort of void like a cavern under that property that is allowing the salt water to seep up from underneath at high tides? Hmmm, couldn't they use some kind of ground penetrating sonar and take a look?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[nota]

no cave just sand and rock allow water flow under the whole state
bits near the ocean are full salt inshore mostly fresh

the bottom slab is in a piece without holes so no cave ins

[nota]

Originally Posted by jyl

I get that the public has to pay for the immediate response so that it gets done, but those expenses should be added to the damages claims. When the land is sold, the taxpayer can get paid back.

I don’t see why the condo owners should get any special financial relief. Their property, their responsibility, and they were amply warned.

the rich think they are special

yes a private home if condemned the cost is on the ownership

but I bet we will be/are paying for this mess

[HobieMarty]

Originally Posted by nota

no cave just sand and rock allow water flow under the whole state
bits near the ocean are full salt inshore mostly fresh

the bottom slab is in a piece without holes so no cave ins

Right, I know there wasn't a sinkhole or else the floor of the parking garage would've been caved in. What I was wondering is if there might be a void of some sort deep under the property that is allowing more salt water at high tides than what would be percieved as normal. The other matching buildings have the same set up with an underground parking garage and don't have the salt water intrusion issues that Champlain South had.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk