Miami condo collapse
 

Happened about 30 minutes ago, so most people were sleeping. :eek:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/24/surfside-building-collapse-miami-dade/

I suspect combination of post tension cables, spalling concrete.

I was an owner in a condo association in the fl keys, other owners fought engineer reports and repairs for years claiming the issues were just cosmetic, until 1 of the balconies was failing and the local building department threatened to pull the CO for the whole complex. Deferring maintenance turned it into an 8 million dollar repair project.

Godspeed to anyone trapped in that mess...possibly a sinkhole ?

Post tension buildings are up and down the beaches in Florida. Tough environment. This won't be the last collapse.

I can't imagine.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1624536647.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1624536647.jpg

The entire condo did not collapse.....only one side.

1 confirmed dead - 10 treated for injuries, so far.

https://images.foxtv.com/static.fox3....jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Just about very single ocean front codo building here has gone through restoration due to corrosion of the rebar inside the concrete from the sea air.

I don't know if this was a factor in this incident. But in looking at the photos - those balconies are the parts that are typically affected.

There's usually plenty of advanced warning signs so a condo building doesn't just fall apart before restoration work can be arranged.

Article mentioned roof work was being done when this happened.

No idea here. Guess we'll find out......

I hope I'm wrong, but it looks like more than 1/2 the building is gone:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1624537421.jpg

I would agree with your analysis.

Very sad situation. Considering what was 12 stories is now less than 1 story tall, I can't imagine anyone inside the collapsed part of the building is alive.

Damn, that looks like a bomb went off.

A much more caustic environment but I did a chiller replacement job in a hospital where the existing absorption chillers used lithium bromide as the refrigerant. The chillers were poorly maintained and had been leaking for years, more likely decades.

When we saw signs of concrete decay under them, we started investigating.

While probing the concrete directly under one of the chillers, the crowbar punched right through the 8” concrete slab under it’s own weight.

When we finished removing the decayed concrete, there was a 30’ x 40’ hole before we got to something we could build back on.

We sometimes take concrete for granted but it’s not the forever material we often think it to be. Much older concrete that was made before the science was well understood was often over designed.

These newer buildings constructed on the cheap and poorly maintained that went up when the science was understood by the designers, allowing more efficient designs but the skill not available in the workers are worrisome.


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CCTV of the condo collapse. It was half the building!

https://twitter.com/catturd2/status/1408056149677576196

They will most likely find that cracks in the concrete balconies allowed water intrusion and rust to develop on the rebar and/or post tension cables. Lack of proper maintenance. Lawyers are circling I'm sure.

WOW!

https://twitter.com/wsvn/status/1408054046808805379?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1408054046808805379%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yaho o.com%2Fnews%2Fbomb-went-off-photos-show-124848278.html

Wow, that is something I would only expect to see in a strong earthquake or in some third world country.

I bet there will be a LOT of building inspections in Florida starting today. That video is just scary. I can't imagine the terror of hearing the building collapse next to you. I assume the building next door has been evacuated.

"The collapse has left at least one person dead—though authorities are expecting far more fatalities. A huge rescue operation is underway with at least 35 people pulled alive from the rubble and 12 reported injuries. Some 51 people remain unaccounted for, Miami-Dade County Commissioner Sally Heyman told CNN."

If only one person died in that, it would be a miracle. Unless it was unoccupied. Sad situation.

Holy shat, that’s horrible. God bless those people

It was about a 20 sec event. :(

This hits close to home and is not surprising. I owned a condo in an association that was denying structural issues, and deferred post tensioning cable repairs for over 10 years. What could have been a sub-million dollar maintenance program turned into an 8+ million dollar job, and there were still board members opposing it. I sent the following out after digging up some old reports, and the board when nuts, called me every name in the book:

It was not until a balcony actually became unsafe and the local building department threatened to pull the Certificates of Occupancy for the whole building did they act. What the idiots didn't realize, is the word was out on our buildings for years, and values low because of it. My value jumped twice what the special assessment was as soon as the work was done, and I bailed.

51 people unaccounted for. This could get real ugly.

There are three more buildings nearby that look exactly the same. I may be wrong, but I believe it is a requirement for condo boards to routinely hire engineers for structural inspections. In our case(above), the reports were buried.

Local inspectors would not step in when they were 'making mistakes' during our concrete repairs. Even when hurricane glass was not being installed per mfg specs. I could only point them out to the engineer/inspector that was hired by the association, and because he worked with the contractor on other sites, he did not want go against them.

The south Florida coast often sees the heaviest occupation between November and April or May. (folks from the North that come down for a warmer winter). So most of those folks would have left by now. Of course, a lot of them may use their condos for things like AirBNB or VRBO during the summer, and there are also some permanent residents.

But yes, if the blurb below is remotely close, that's pretty amazing and lucky.

Ho-Lee-sheet!

That is nuts, you seriously think something like that could only occur because of an earthquake or similar. Just straight up failing is crazy.

Typical of so many things, I will bet there will be a lot of inspections happening now, and a big investigation. More lawsuits than we can imagine, and the sad deaths that could have been prevented.

Imagine living in any building that was built before that one, built by the same builder, and using the same techniques. It is obvious there are lots of similar buildings, and I bet they find a few that are overdue for repairs and maintenance.

There will be endless finger pointing and take a decade or more for any real changes to happen.

That sounds criminal to me.

As dad911 posted above, it's up to the condo board to inspect and repair. FL condo law is a swamp. They have lobbyists in the Capital and the laws are written in the books. Residents got tired of building owners not maintaining the building so it was shifted to the condo boards. You can see how well that is working. Companies that develop them have protected by LLC's.

I bet that changes after this disaster is investigated.

With many billions of dollars involved it will be a real challenge.

And I'll have to say that a lot has been learned over the years on design details and products for condos. Buildings built in the '70 and '80 don't use the same design for balconies, handrails and window systems, etc. now as then.

local news 24h on this now

99 missing at 2;45 pm one body two in hospt



report that there is a exact twin of the fallen building 3 lots north of the site they are a north/south pair from the same plan and corp built

ocean side fell 40 year old bld undergoing insp and repairs

I have to wonder about value impacts on this common type of condo
esp on a sand bar ocean front as far too many are located

Not that it’s much better but isn’t most of south Florida limestone?


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That’s why my previous employer with $14B in annual revenue would not take residential work. Too easy for the developers to vaporize leaving them as the deepest pocket.

Couple that risk with the use of EIFS common in these residential buildings, it was too much to swallow.


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I took an engineering ethics class in school where we studied disasters like the Challenger and the KC Hyatt walkway collapse, and the decisions made leading up to the disaster. I suspect this will eventually be a topic in similar classes.

What are the 2 bright flashes at the beginning of the collapse video? Maybe power cables being severed but looks too bright for that. Lightning strike? I've seen unbelievable structural damage from lightning. If there was roofing work being done, there are three common collapse occurrences: plugged roof drains causing water ponding (extreme weight), improper storage of new roofing materials/equipment causing localized stress, and fire from torches. Deterioration of concrete may in fact be the cause but a total collapse from that would be somewhat surprising to me. Roof (or other construction) work would be the first thing I'd need to rule in or out. -- retired forensic structural engineer.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1624562552.png

I bet you have stories.

BTW, save your image as a JPG and re-post. Can't see png's here, at least I can't.

This is fascinating engineering I know nothing about.

I suspect it'll be a case study in some law classes too Matt.

limestone is a bit stronger then oolite https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=oolite
we have mostly oolite some sand and limestone you never know til you do a coreboring

preliminary reports say subsidence/erosion led to failing

note late 70's I found a gov benchmark out by about a tenth of a foot
a bit north of that area on the beach in a sidewalk by a mall
the whole beach strip island was sand dunes or mud/mangroves on top of oolite
none of it strong or stable :rolleyes: