Being poor is very expensive.

[black73]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Oh, these folks have zero credit. They'd be in a mountain of cc debt the second they were allowed.

A guy I met with a few mos. ago in a trailer park was the brother of another guy I had met a year or so earlier, same trailer park. Talk about poverty running in the family.....

Yes, it runs in the family. Where do you think these people learn how not to care of money? They learn by example and often end up on the wrong end of payday loans, etc. before they even have a chance at a good start. Once a person gets in that hole it becomes very difficult to get out. Some lose hope and end up being your customers.

People aren't born knowing money management and it sure as hell isn't taught in schools.

[cabmandone]

When I was a kid my parents gave me two pieces of financial advice.
1) Never spend more in a month than you make.
2) If you have a credit card, never put more on it than you can pay off at the end of the month

Doesn't seem like rocket science.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by cabmando

When I was a kid my parents gave me two pieces of financial advice.
1) Never spend more in a month than you make.
2) If you have a credit card, never put more on it than you can pay off at the end of the month

Doesn't seem like rocket science.

^^^^ Two totally non-existent "issues" when I wuz a baby T-Rex

I think mine was...

"Money doesn't grown on trees! "

They were tobacco farmers tho' ..... but not really

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by KC911

^^^^ Two totally non-existent "issues" when I wuz a baby T-Rex

I think mine was...

"Money doesn't grown on trees! "

They were tobacco farmers tho' ..... but not really

I started doing cleanup work in an autobody shop when I was 13 and had a paper route too. So I had money to burn!

One other lesson about money my parents taught me was "Save a little, spend a little, and give a little to charity"

Money doesn't grow on trees was usually reserved for when mom took me clothes shopping for the upcoming school year. I hated going clothes shopping but had expensive taste in shoes.

[KFC911]

Mowing lawns began at 13 ... passbook savings account.

No one I knew upon graduating college even had a CC.

.....Live within yer means!

Like Tabby

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

She said it had a $35k face amount. Nope, called the company, it was $10k. She had taken over the $20/mo payments and already paid $13k into it. Her cash value was $7000. If this shows you how overpriced that policy was, I was able to get her the same price per thousand, even 55 years later. She was all set to cash out and start over, gave me everything I needed .... until it came to the banking info. She only used debit cards, nothing with a checking acct #. That raised the price by about $8/mo and she balked. I said, "You're walking away from a $7000 refund, another policy at the same price per thousand, all because you don't want an insurance company to auto-draft your account, so you'd rather keep overpaying into that policy AND paying for money orders for the privilege?"

That's why she's poor.

How does this stuff work?
She is paying $250/year for a $10k benefit?
She has spent $13k already for a $10k benefit?

I don't think she's poor because of debit cards.
She's poor because of con artist insurance agents.

Cash value insurance policies are a complete scam.
Most competent planners only suggest term life.

[David]

So what's the answer?

Education on handling money? Most of these poor are the ones who felt like they were being forced to be at school, didn't pay attention enough to learn anything, so another class on handling money wouldn't teach them anything either.

Cut off the free money if they don't learn new skills? See above.

Cut off the free money after a period of time? We've already discussed how they're terrible at making good decisions, so will this really help them get off the poor cycle?

So now what? We've cut off the money and they have to eat and feed and cloth all these kids they popped out. Humm? "Rich people have money, let's go take their money!" Get gun, rob people, problem solved. Until of course they get caught and we're paying to house and feed them for the next 20 years.

My solution: give them free money but don't take it all away when they earn money. Take away 50 cents for every dollar they earn to encourage some work which might actually get them to work more and more. If people are fine living on next to nothing for the rest of their life, so be it.

[fintstone]

My solution is never give any able-bodied person "free money" taken from someone else that had to earn it. It may be a hard lesson for a few...but it will help all over the long term. Income-based social welfare is the worst thing that can be imposed on a person/society as it rewards sloth and/or poor choices.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

How does this stuff work?
She is paying $250/year for a $10k benefit?
She has spent $13k already for a $10k benefit?

I don't think she's poor because of debit cards.
She's poor because of con artist insurance agents.

Cash value insurance policies are a complete scam.
Most competent planners only suggest term life.

Term is the worst thing you can do when you're over 50 and on a fixed income. If your income never goes up, but your term insurance cost does every five yrs, you will eventually not be able to afford it and quit it. Then, if you want to start a new whole life policy, you'll be that much older and thus it will be more expensive.

I'm not responsible for what some insurance company sold this woman's mother six years before I was born. It might help if these folks read their paperwork, calculated their break-even point, cashed out at the right time and either invested that cash or started over. By the time I get involved, I'm usually trying to stop the bleeding. And if these folks want life insurance, can afford it and I can beat what they already have, why would I try to talk them out of it? So they can buy it from someone else, usually for more $$?

[RANDY P]

Yeah Rick, it's your job to ensure you always have the lowest price!

rjp

[1990C4S]

Perhaps there is no answer to the money issue. Maybe some people are simply not intelligent enough to function in this economy.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

Yeah Rick, it's your job to ensure you always have the lowest price!

rjp

I usually do have the lowest price. I'm independent and owe no loyalty to any insurance company. I can shop around for the best price. I've never once had one of my policies get replaced other than by fraud. When someone cancels because they think they found a better deal or were told such by another agent, if I can get back in front of them, I can save it 100% of the time. Some crazy lady yesterday kept telling me Mutual of Omaha was the best price. I entered her b-day and showed her Mutual of Omaha's price. I had five companies that were cheaper. I told her I'd be happy to place her with MOO (hey, I get paid more if she pays more). But I always show the best price I can find, which means it will never get replaced by something cheaper.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Perhaps there is no answer to the money issue. Maybe some people are simply not intelligent enough to function in this economy.

If someone can't figure out what my parents told me early on, holy sh.t are we in trouble! It really isn't rocket science BUT it takes discipline.... maybe that's the real problem.

[Rick Lee]

These people are not really functioning in this economy. They're not working. If they have any earned income, it's under the table so as to not mess with their SSDI. SSDI pays way below federal poverty level and min. wage. The extent of their impact on the economy is what they spend on groceries, cigarette taxes, money order and check cashing fees and maybe car insurance. Their healthcare is paid for by Medicare or Medicaid.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by fintstone

My solution is never give any able-bodied person "free money" taken from someone else that had to earn it. It may be a hard lesson for a few...but it will help all over the long term. Income-based social welfare is the worst thing that can be imposed on a person/society as it rewards sloth and/or poor choices.

Passing out unearned money is like passing out crack on a grade school playground. It destroys the future of those involved and creates customers for life.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I usually do have the lowest price. I'm independent and owe no loyalty to any insurance company. I can shop around for the best price. I've never once had one of my policies get replaced other than by fraud. When someone cancels because they think they found a better deal or were told such by another agent, if I can get back in front of them, I can save it 100% of the time. Some crazy lady yesterday kept telling me Mutual of Omaha was the best price. I entered her b-day and showed her Mutual of Omaha's price. I had five companies that were cheaper. I told her I'd be happy to place her with MOO (hey, I get paid more if she pays more). But I always show the best price I can find, which means it will never get replaced by something cheaper.

If you have the lowest price and still can demonstrate value, that's perfect.

For everyone else: It's a salesperson's responsibility to deliver value to the customer IE: provide a tangible benefit.

It's the CUSTOMER's responsibility to find the best deal on that benefit. Don't be dumb like SUGAR who thinks the salesman is responsible for your due diligence.

Do your homework.

rjp

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

If you have the lowest price and still can demonstrate value, that's perfect.

For everyone else: It's a salesperson's responsibility to deliver value to the customer IE: provide a tangible benefit.

It's the CUSTOMER's responsibility to find the best deal on that benefit. Don't be dumb like SUGAR who thinks the salesman is responsible for your due diligence.

Do your homework.

rjp

Best advice so far.

[gordner]

[QUOTE=Racerbvd;11424730]Yep, people use to be embarrassed to have food stamps and government assistance, now it is a goal. It is very clear that people's standards have tremendously dropped.
Now people are being brainwashed that they "deserve " X amount of money no matter what the job. Minimum wage was never meant to be anything but a starting point, from there you work your way up. I remember as a kid, Mr Fetzer, who owned Lake Shore Schwinn (family still owns it, but no longer Schwinn) when I started working, I earned $3.35 an hour. Now I was only at that rate a short time as I was motivated. I remember asking Mr Fetzer what it would take to earn more money, his answer was very simple

make yourself worth more money[/QUOTE]
So I went from fixing flats, to repairing to building new bikes, when the new product lines would come out, I would educate myself so I could work on the sales floor, ect. I learned a lot from him, and not just about bikes, but business and ethics and more.
His words are just as true today as they were in the early 80s.

Part of the problem is right in this story. $3.35 in the early 80's works out to over 11 bucks an hour now, just tracking inflation. Yet that job today is probably well below that.

[Racerbvd]

[QUOTE=gordner;11427669]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Yep, people use to be embarrassed to have food stamps and government assistance, now it is a goal. It is very clear that people's standards have tremendously dropped.
Now people are being brainwashed that they "deserve " X amount of money no matter what the job. Minimum wage was never meant to be anything but a starting point, from there you work your way up. I remember as a kid, Mr Fetzer, who owned Lake Shore Schwinn (family still owns it, but no longer Schwinn) when I started working, I earned $3.35 an hour. Now I was only at that rate a short time as I was motivated. I remember asking Mr Fetzer what it would take to earn more money, his answer was very simple

Part of the problem is right in this story. $3.35 in the early 80's works out to over 11 bucks an hour now, just tracking inflation. Yet that job today is probably well below that.

But that doesn't change the point at all. It is still true today that if you want to earn more money, you make yourself worth more, be it through education, acquiring new skills, better work ethic ect.
Sometimes that means working more than one job, in the 80s, not only did I work in a bike shop, but also at the shipyards, loading and uploading container ships, generally 12 hour days and some weekend nights I might be bartending, working the door or even relieve the DJ and work the booth for a while. Anyone who wants to make money can if they are willing to work.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by brp914

This is slightly off-topic. Abusive towing companies that tow poor people's cars over trivial things, then charge them onerous fines and abusive treatment to boot. If you haven't seen this sheriff in action you're in for a treat. His descriptions really capture your attention. I've seen a number of them and they are excellent. In this one, a guy goes to collect his car from impound, he pays his fines, gets abused, loses it, and ends up killed.

I've had cars towed 2 or 3 times many, many years ago. In most cases, the tow company and/or lot where the cars were towed did the same, very questionable practices. They knew that they had you over a barrel, and were happy to exploit that. The good news is that much like touching a hot tap on a stove, you pretty quickly learn not to get burned.

I think back in the mid to late 80s we paid ~$300 to get a car back that had been towed a couple of hours earlier. Then we had a car towed to a shop, and that was $50 for a tow that was 2-3x farther than the other tow. But, much like the folks that price gouge during a disaster or shortage, the tow company knows that if you want your car, you'll pay it, and you always want your car since it's usually thousands of dollars vs their few hundred.