Vaccines are moving the needle...

[Sooner or later]

Scott Gottlieb is an excellent source of info. An actual legit source used by ZH

[john70t]

Shouldn't naturally-immune people get a "special protections act" written into law?
A multi-pass..guaranteed everywhere in the world?

Tomorrow ZH will flip-flop and call him the devil reincarnated. But that will change again in a few weeks. We are learning from you guys.

[speeder]

[john70t]

Okay, political memes in the wrong forum then.

[pmax]

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/article/evidence-mounts-that-people-with-breakthrough-infections-can-spread-delta-easily

[pmax]

[Aurel]

Originally Posted by pmax

Hey, two doses ain’t enough, it’s 3 doses to be fully vaccinated now! When dose it end…? (Pun intended)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-israel-being-fully-vaccinated-now-means-three-shots-11630426257

And then, there is this Israeli study that says natural immunity is 13x more effective than vaccine against delta variant…I haven’t checked the study itself, but it is linked at the end of the article.

https://www.herald.ng/this-ends-the-debate-israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-13x-more-effective-than-vaccines-at-stopping-delta/

And I had to find it on DuckDuckGo because the first hit on Google gives a 404 error, what a surprise…

https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

[Steve Carlton]

According to this NPR article on 8/20 "The country jumped out ahead of all other countries on vaccines, and 78% of eligible Israelis over 12 years old are vaccinated.

But Israel has a young population, with many under the eligible age for vaccination, and about 1.1 million eligible Israelis, largely between the ages of 12 and 20, have declined to take even one dose of the vaccine.

That means only 58% of Israel's total citizenry is fully vaccinated. Experts say that's not nearly high enough."

I'm thinking the case rates for vaccinated people are higher than unvaccinated because a larger percentage of the population is vaccinated and suffering a lot of breakthrough vaccinations. That sucks, but what really matters is the hospitalization and death rate between the two groups. Also from that article:

"The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket."

If natural immunization works well, that's great. Choosing to become immune by getting COVID is stupid IMO. The hospitalization rate is overwhelming our capacity to handle it, and at the expense of those who need hospitals for non-COVID reasons.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

[john70t]

"Trust the chaos." (tm)

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by Aurel

And then, there is this Israeli study that says natural immunity is 13x more effective than vaccine against delta variant…I haven’t checked the study itself, but it is linked at the end of the article.

Didn't that study show the a much higher effective percentage with natural immunity + one dose of the vaccine? I can't imagine a 2nd or 3rd dose lower the percentage, can you?

Getting natural immunity is like playing Russian Roulette with your health, no?

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by john70t

Okay, political memes in the wrong forum then.

The people on the left are clearly not "sophisticated"

[mdj930]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

According to this NPR article on 8/20 "The country jumped out ahead of all other countries on vaccines, and 78% of eligible Israelis over 12 years old are vaccinated.

But Israel has a young population, with many under the eligible age for vaccination, and about 1.1 million eligible Israelis, largely between the ages of 12 and 20, have declined to take even one dose of the vaccine.

That means only 58% of Israel's total citizenry is fully vaccinated. Experts say that's not nearly high enough."

I'm thinking the case rates for vaccinated people are higher than unvaccinated because a larger percentage of the population is vaccinated and suffering a lot of breakthrough vaccinations. That sucks, but what really matters is the hospitalization and death rate between the two groups. Also from that article:

"The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket."

If natural immunization works well, that's great. Choosing to become immune by getting COVID is stupid IMO. The hospitalization rate is overwhelming our capacity to handle it, and at the expense of those who need hospitals for non-COVID reasons.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Explain to me did the kids over 12 get the shot or did kids from 12 to 20 not get the shot?
Mike

[Aurel]

The problem with all these studies is that they are based on a flawed test, that is over sensitive and gives no information on viral load, which directly relates to transmission and outcome of the disease. If the test was meaningful, it would show a difference between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated in the Israeli case of delta, since there is a difference in hospitalization rates.

[DontBaSheeple]

I'll say BS about the 99.2% of unvaxxed dying from Covid. I believe that deaths and side effects are way under reported among the vaccinated in VAERS.

Originally Posted by speeder

[cabmandone]

And I believe in Unicorns!! Woo Hooo

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by mdj930

Explain to me did the kids over 12 get the shot or did kids from 12 to 20 not get the shot?
Mike

I don't know. I just mentioned some things I was curious about. Not to be rude, but please research your question yourself. Or maybe others here will know the answer and hopefully provide a credible link.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by Aurel

And I had to find it on DuckDuckGo because the first hit on Google gives a 404 error, what a surprise…

https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

That link still generates a 404 error. I'm not going to subscribe to a conspiracy theory regarding that, though. From that link, accessed through DuckDuckGo there's this:

"The study demonstrates the power of the human immune system, but infectious disease experts emphasized that this vaccine and others for COVID-19 nonetheless remain highly protective against severe disease and death. And they caution that intentional infection among unvaccinated people would be extremely risky. “What we don’t want people to say is: ‘All right, I should go out and get infected, I should have an infection party,’” says Michel Nussenzweig, an immunologist at Rockefeller University who researches the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 and was not involved in the study. “Because somebody could die.”

The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated. The new work could inform discussion of whether previously infected people need to receive both doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine or the similar mRNA vaccine from Moderna. Vaccine mandates don’t necessarily exempt those who had a SARS-CoV-2 infection already and the current U.S. recommendation is that they be fully vaccinated, which means two mRNA doses or one of the Johnson & Johnson adenovirus-based vaccine. Yet one mRNA dose might be enough, some scientists argue. And other countries including Germany, France, Italy, and Israel administer just one vaccine dose to previously infected people."

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by DontBaSheeple

I'll say BS about the 99.2% of unvaxxed dying from Covid. I believe that deaths and side effects are way under reported among the vaccinated in VAERS.

So, what do you "think" the percentage of deaths attributed to COVID were unvaxxed? Any credible links, island?

[mdj930]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

I don't know. I just mentioned some things I was curious about. Not to be rude, but please research your question yourself. Or maybe others here will know the answer and hopefully provide a credible link.

I don't think you're being rude. The article you posted contradicts itself in the first two paragraphs. Maybe I'm missing something. Just thought I'd ask you posted it.
Mike

[Steve Carlton]

I'd be curious myself. I posted that link because it had some very straightforward information in it.