Vaccines are moving the needle...

[Steve Carlton]

Yes. I'm looking at the results and interpretation provided by the source of the tables. Do you see where Karl Denninger comes up with his conclusions?

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Yes. I'm looking at the results and interpretation provided by the source of the tables. Do you see where Karl Denninger comes up with his conclusions?

Karl failed to mention a bit of information while he was patting himself on the back. Hope he didn't break his arm.

[Steve Carlton]

Karl has poor javadog all tied up in his underwear.

[javadog]

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by javadog

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/

Important to note the difference between a VA hospital and a regular hospital. Our local hospital is going to start rationing antibody treatments because so many need them. They have the max number of patients on vents right now which is 12 and the hospital is at capacity as a whole. 89% of the total number of Covid patients are unvaccinated. One out of three admitted patients are there with Covid.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by javadog

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/

So, you go from pushing Karl Denninger's bizarre conclusions to sharing this? For example, Karl says "That means what you think it does: If you took the jabs you are the plague rat; you are more-likely to get (and thus transmit) the disease than an unvaccinated person." Now, from the link you just posted:

One of the important implications of the study, these experts say, is that the introduction of vaccines strongly correlates with a greater share of COVID hospital patients having mild or asymptomatic disease. “It’s underreported how well the vaccine makes your life better, how much less sick you are likely to be, and less sick even if hospitalized,” Snyder said. “That’s the gem in this study.”

“People ask me, ‘Why am I getting vaccinated if I just end up in the hospital anyway?’” Griffin said. “But I say, ‘You’ll end up leaving the hospital.’” He explained that some COVID patients are in for “soft” hospitalizations, where they need only minimal treatment and leave relatively quickly; others may be on the antiviral drug remdesivir for five days, or with a tube down their throat. One of the values of this study, he said, is that it helps the public understand this distinction—and the fact that not all COVID hospitalizations are the same.

[javadog]

The point of the article, since you apparently didn’t get it, is that the total number of hospitalizations for Covid isn’t telling us much.

If I tell you that someone is in the hospital because of Covid, you would assume that they are fairly sick. As it turns out, that’s not necessarily the case.

[Steve Carlton]

I saw that and understand it, but thanks for assuming that I don't. How about this- do you agree many of our hospitals are overwhelmed with patients? Does it matter how severe their COVID case is if the system is overfull?

If someone is in the hospital because of COVID, I would assume they're sick enough to justify being there. Are you assuming that our hospitals are admitting people that don't need to be there?

You're earlier contention is that vaccination is creating more deadly variants. Quoting crackpots and passing them off as experts is not helpful and doesn't speak well for your research skills. It seems anybody that says something that supports your narrative is credible. There's way too many people in this country making things a lot more difficult than they need to be by subscribing to disinformation and conspiracy theories. On this forum, you are one of the poster children of that problem. What is the matter with you? Are you this stupid?

[javadog]

I don’t know that the hospitals are full. The ones I have personal knowledge of, aren’t. Here’s the factor in the hospital capacity that you’re not considering, staff. Many of them are grossly understaffed so their available beds are reduced because of that. That seldom gets mentioned because the preferred media narrative is that they are full because of Covid patients.

I don’t necessarily agree with everything that is said in the posts I link. Stupid of you to assume that.

I happen to question whether the Delta variant is as deadly as the original offer, I have seen nothing that address is that question well ruling out other possible variables. I don’t know if the newer variance are more or less deadly, never even considered that question yet.

Vaccines can make future variants worse, in a similar way to overuse of antibiotics giving rise to antibiotic resistant bugs. Lots of urologists are very concerned about that. Will it happen, we’ll see, won’t we?

Quit with the insults, if you don’t like what I post here don’t ****ing read it.

[G50]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

How about this- do you agree many of our hospitals are overwhelmed with patients?

Define “many.”
Like, as a percentage of hospitals in the US.
That’s actually a stat I’d be interested in seeing.
(I don’t know what the answer is).

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

“People ask me, ‘Why am I getting vaccinated if I just end up in the hospital anyway?’” Griffin said. “But I say, ‘You’ll end up leaving the hospital.’” He explained that some COVID patients are in for “soft” hospitalizations, where they need only minimal treatment and leave relatively quickly; others may be on the antiviral drug remdesivir for five days, or with a tube down their throat. One of the values of this study, he said, is that it helps the public understand this distinction—and the fact that not all COVID hospitalizations are the same.

Ah...moving the goalposts again....
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/cdc-quietly-changes-definition-of-vaccine/



So now anything can be called "producing protection", and be considered a "vaccine", by our foremost controlling Medical Authority.
How creative this new science is.

So, um, what is the definition of "producing protection"?
Such a vague term. That could be applied to anything.
It doesn't even have to work long term.
(and forget about long term safety studies before large scale release and distribution)

Is aspirin a vaccine against pain?

[island911]

^

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by javadog

Quit with the insults, if you don’t like what I post here don’t ****ing read it.

I don't like insulting anybody until they start it. Listen to any credible discussion of debates and the first thing that derails them is personal attacks. I may not succeed, but I try to follow that advise. I'm looking to learn something and arrive at some agreement when possible. I looked at this thread from the beginning and it appears to me you started insulting me first in post# 373. If you want to have a civil discussion free of insults, I'm happy to agree and start over again.

[hbueno]

Good luck with that....

[john70t]

The entire definition of a medical category was conveniently altered at a critical time.
And yet, crickets.

[Steve Carlton]

Technology advances over time and a definition is updated. What problem do you find with it, if any?

[cockerpunk]

nothing says grasping at straws like trying to use the always changing dictionary definition of a vaccine as health advice to justify not getting us out of the pandemic faster and with less loss of life.

it truly is amazing how far people will go for their conspiracy theories.

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

nothing says grasping at straws like trying to use the always changing dictionary definition of a vaccine as health advice to justify not getting us out of the pandemic faster and with less loss of life.

it truly is amazing how far people will go for their conspiracy theories.

It's an ongoing process of moving the goalposts. The data is clear - vaccines are saving lives while the unvaccinated are being hospitalized and dying at a far faster rate. They've already drawn their conclusion; now they're desperately seeking any lingering straw to grasp at to support it.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

The data is clear - vaccines are saving lives while the unvaccinated are being hospitalized and dying at a far faster rate.

And that's where the data gets murky...to say the least.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by john70t

And that's where the data gets murky...to say the least.

Based on what, specifically?

I’m hearing crickets regarding the vaccine definition question…