She sure comes across as an airhead in her various quotes that have been reported by the media.

So just saying after the fact, ‘I didn’t know it was loaded!’ is OK and exonerates in some circumstances but not in others?

Say I’m heading home after watching Brady go down in history at the sports bar and kill somebody and I tell the cop, ‘I didn’t know the light turned red!’. Am I good to go?

Were you on a "closed circuit" where you were supposed to run the red light?

Races at Le Mans, the 'Ring, the Mille Miglia, the Long Beach Grand Prix, etc... were all run on city streets that were closed off and setup for a race. If someone in the family truckster somehow managed to get onto the course in the middle of the longest straight and was hit by a racecar driver, should that driver be held liable because he was on a course that was supposed to be closed to the public?

Good point as far as it goes.

A closer analogy would be what happens if one driver slams into the pit crew at 60 mph. Everybody involved was supposed to be where they were.

How far can this tread get off topic? :rolleyes:

Is a condom company libel if a kid is born?

This thread has been perfectly right on topic.

We are discussing how such a thing could happen, i.e., how somebody screwed up in spite of safety protocols.

What if their quality control isn't up to snuff and there are holes in their condoms?

That has actually happened BTW.

We could PARF it up by discussing who actually is responsible for a child being born, if you wish.

I am curious , for those of you that are in the movie business what are actors told if anything about guns on set ? Are they told they are fake ? Or real ? Just wondering what the general mindset is in regards to firearms . Are actors part of safety meetings ? Or is it just crew ? I am just trying to understand the processes and procedures .

You may want to start from scratch and read the entire thread.

I have been following since the beginning of this thread.

Sorry, ury. My post was directed at rfuer.

My mistake.

I see it now. ;)

Actors will be given firearms training and are part of safety meetings. They are also shown that a weapon is "cold" when rehearsing or filming where no firing of blanks happens.

If there will be firing of blanks, the actor is shown and given a "cold" weapon for rehearsal and any choreographing of the scene. When they are ready to "roll film" non essential personnel are moved away from the set and the Armorer shows the actor, director, AD, etc. that the weapon is now "hot" and it is loudly announced to the cast and crew.

They film the "take" and the weapon is immediately retrieved from the actor and made "cold" by the Armorer. If another take is needed the protocol is repeated each time.

Edit to add: Even when using rubber guns we have a safety meeting to assure cast and crew that no "hot" weapons will be used that day or in that scene.

Sorry guys, no sale on the "it's different because it's a movie set", or "how can we expect mere actors to know about these things". No sale. Any time real guns are involved, any time even a realistic fake gun is involved, the rules are the same. There is absolutely no room for "situational fudging" of these rules, for flat out ignoring them, or any excuses when guns are involved. None. Ever. For any reason whatsoever anyone can conjure up. These rules are absolutely stead fast regardless of situation. All the time, everywhere, with everyone. Sorry, there is simply no room for negation on this. And we just saw why.

If the script called for a chimpanzee to handle a gun, I would thing the armorer would be quite vigilant about removing any possibility of a live round winding up in a prop gun and guaranteeing it. Treat all the actors like chimps.

Just to be clear, it is the Assistant Director's job to keep things moving on set so that you "make your day" (completing that days filming schedule). Things will get bogged down due to unforeseen circumstances (weather, equipment malfunctions, etc) and the AD will keep pushing, sometimes in the name of safety.

With the camera crew walking off I'm thinking the director, cinematographer and AD took it upon themselves to try and get some film footage to make up for the delay using a "skeleton crew". They had broke for lunch and returned early to set to rehearse the gun draw scene. It sounds like (and I have heard) that the Armorer wasn't even there, that's why the AD grabbed the gun off of the prop cart and handed it to Alec.

A complete breakdown in safety protocols.

Excellent explanation thank you . I have read all ten pages several times and didn't see the answer to my questions . Now I/we know .

Here is a statement from the Gaffer on the film. The use of inexperienced help to save money is ultimately to blame, and that falls on the producers:

https://deadline.com/2021/10/rust-serge-svetnoy-halyna-hutchins-alec-baldwin-negligence-unprofessionalism-1234861697/

I’m sure that we had the professionals in every department, but one – the department that was responsible for the weapons. There is no way a twenty-four-year-old woman can be a professional with armory; there is no way that her more-or-less the same-aged friend from school, neighborhood, Instagram, or God knows where else, can be a professional in this field.

“Professionals are the people who have spent years on sets, people who know this job from A to Z; These are the people who have the safety on set at the level of reflexes; they do not need to be told to put the sandbag on a tripod, fix the ladder on the stage, or fence off the explosion site. They have it in their blood.”

You can say "no sale" all you want, but that won't make it so. And I respect your strict stance on guns safety. But Baldwin is not liable here, and neither you or I get to decide that. But if a jury finds him so, I'll eat my hat.