Why didn't 4 wheel steer catch on for trucks?

[rockfan4]

I watched a commercial today for the Silverado EV, and it looks like GM is bringing back 4 wheel steering on that platform.
As the driver of a pickup with a 157" wheelbase, I'm wondering why that didn't become more common after the first time - Sierras and Silverados offered it in the early 2000's? Too expensive? Spectacular failures at speed? I can't use the inside drive thru lane at my bank, or some fast food drive thrus without scuffing the curbs. On the other hand, I parallel parked that monster perfectly the other day, I'm sure dumb luck had a lot to do with it, along with the car in front being well forward in their space.

[stevej37]

The 4 wheel steering that Honda used in the 80's used an elliptical gear to steer the rear wheels in the opposite direction of the fronts...until a certain speed (I think 25mph) and then the rears would steer in the same direction as the fronts.

I drove one...very interesting feeling at low speeds. The rear end could swing out more than expected during parking and such.

There are prob other variants now.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by stevej37

The 4 wheel steering that Honda used in the 80's used an elliptical gear to steer the rear wheels in the opposite direction of the fronts...until a certain speed (I think 25mph) and then the rears would steer in the same direction as the fronts.

I drove one...very interesting feeling at low speeds. The rear end could swing out more than expected during parking and such.

There are prob other variants now.

All of the 4ws cars that I've ever heard of did that, low speed opposite direction, high speed same direction. Even Porsche has had 4ws (recently)

https://cartreatments.com/cars-with-4-wheel-steering/

Honda Prelude
Acura RLX
Acura TLX
Nissan 300 ZX
Nissan Skyline R34 GT-R
Lamborghini Aventador S
Lamborghini Urus
Porsche 911
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Panamera
Ferrari 812 Superfast
Mitsubishi 3000GT
Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
Audi A6
Audi A7
Audi A8
BMW 5 Series
BMW 7 Series
BMW 850 CSi
Mercedes AMG GT R
Lexus GS
Lexus LC 500
Lexus LS 500
Lexus RC
Cadillac CT6
Ford F-150 Platinum ZF
Chevy Silverado
GMC Sierra 1500 Denali

[stevej37]

I think the Prelude was one of the first to offer it...and that's when I drove one, trying it out.
I passed on it and bought the one I have now.

On the Prelude forum...owners do not talk highly of the 4 wheel steering. Too many extra things to cost money later on.

[asphaltgambler]

My recollection with Honda back in the day, being the first was, the option cost. $2500 additional above a non-4ws car. Which was quite significant then. My opinion is that the option was something that the buying public could not 'see' or 'feel'. It wasn't flashy or sexy and at $2500 more nobody saw the value.

[stevej37]

^^^ I agree.
I think I paid $25K at that time...which was a lot in 98 for one with reg steering.

[pavulon]

Could see some limited maneuverability advantages in 4ws but in exchange, steering requires axle hubs may not be able to handle a big trailer load at high temps for 10's of thousands of miles.

That said, I think this is a better party trick:

[asphaltgambler]

I remember at the time I worked for Bear Equipment and the engineers were working on a solution to measure caster swing on the rear of 4WS cars. Seemed it was the next big thing and every car and truck would have it as standard from the factory.

As far as trucks, GM dipped their toes in a while back but I think for the same reason did not sell as well as anticipated.

[Scott R]

It was a horrible failure for GM in the 2000's. If you had one 80% of time the computer disabled it. Assuming it even worked at all.

[otto_kretschmer]

I have a 2003 Suburban with the 4 wheel steering and it still works. Its kinda cool to turn around in front of my house without having to do a multi point turn. I think it failed for GM because of the cost. It started out as a $3k or $4k option (maybe $5k). GM got it down to maybe $2k but by then it was dead. It adds a lot of complexity to the truck. It makes servicing the rear dif a lot harder.

[David]

Cost is what I recall being the biggest issue on the GMC trucks.

We have it on our Panamera. I have mixed emotions about it. In a parking lot it's great. On a tight twisty road near the limit it does help. On the highway just cruising at a decent clip I'm not a fan since to me it feels weird. I want a car to feel rock solid at high speed with all steering on the front end and not have the rear end try to help the steering.

[shinrai]

Do we really need it? Do we really need all the "tech" offered in newer vehicles?

This stuff sounds really expensive to fix.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by shinrai

Do we really need it? Do we really need all the "tech" offered in newer vehicles?

This stuff sounds really expensive to fix.

You've got to be careful with thoughts like that.

"We should definitely save $2k/vehicle by not including " sounds great until it's you or your wife or kid or mother that's killed.

That line of thinking leads to folks saying "sure, we should get rid of air bags, seat belts, crumple zones, etc... We don't need those.

Obviously, most folks would see that as folly, but then at one time, all of those things were seen as expensive and unnecessary.

[SeanPizzle]

I have a Yukon XL 2500 with the Quadrasteer. I think the option was about 4500 new. I bought the rig a year old with 13K miles for 31K (was 54k sticker). Honestly, I love it for parking lots and backing while towing. Hope I can keep this on the road for a few more years

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by stevej37

The 4 wheel steering that Honda used in the 80's used an elliptical gear to steer the rear wheels in the opposite direction of the fronts...until a certain speed (I think 25mph) and then the rears would steer in the same direction as the fronts.

I drove one...very interesting feeling at low speeds. The rear end could swing out more than expected during parking and such.

There are prob other variants now.

I owned two 1989 Honda Preludes with 4WS. It was purely mechanical. You turn the wheel and the wheels turned together, for the first few degrees. Then the rears returned to "normal" and finally, further turning and the rears turned opposite. I think it changed the minimal turning radius from 36 feet to 30 feet.

It did not feel weird to drive. Should have kept that car instead of buying the Accord.

[stevej37]

^^^ Yeah...I was wrong on how it worked...I never owned one with it.
I did own an 80 and a 85 before the one I have now.(98)
I test drove a 4 wheel steering Prelude..but didn't buy it because of the price diff.


All three of them had zero mechanical problems. The one I own now has 115K miles.

[red-beard]

I never had any issues with it. And again, I was stupid for replacing it with a family car for the ex-Mrs. Beard. 2 Years later we bought a real family car, a Jeep Cherokee.

[rockfan4]

It sounds like "cost" is the answer. 20 year newer technology could hopefully overcome any issues the older GM products had. Also, trucks are so damn expensive these days, what's another five grand?

Ford F-150 Platinum ZF

Looks like this is a prototype and hasn't made it to production. All I can find are articles hinting it may come out, but they're at least a year old.

My solution is to hopefully get a shorter truck. A crew cab 6' box is the same length as my extended cab 8' box, and it seems like the majority of trucks these days are crew cabs, most with 5' boxes, a few with 6' boxes. I'm hoping to find a extended cab with a 6 or 6.5 foot box.

I can also see idiots modding their trucks to crab down the highway, if it looks stupid it must be cool, right?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by masraum

You've got to be careful with thoughts like that.

"We should definitely save $2k/vehicle by not including " sounds great until it's you or your wife or kid or mother that's killed.

That line of thinking leads to folks saying "sure, we should get rid of air bags, seat belts, crumple zones, etc... We don't need those.

Obviously, most folks would see that as folly, but then at one time, all of those things were seen as expensive and unnecessary.

I agree with the importance of modern safety technology in vehicles but I also think that there is a lot of non-safety related tech in them that is extraneous and that I could live without, for sure.

[speeder]

I'm also trying to imagine how the rear wheels turning thee same way as the fronts would be an advantage in a high speed turn in a modern Porsche?