The 993 Carerra

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Marine Blue

There are plenty of the younger generation that absolutely love the air cooled 911’s. It seems the primary draw is the late 70’s through the 993 with the wide bodies getting most of the attention. Obviously there’s love for the new stuff, primarily the GT cars.

I know that when I had my old '88, I probably got the most looks from kids.

As far as performance being underwhelming, if anyone has an opportunity to really drive these cars the way they were meant to be driven on the back roads and canyons I seriously doubt they would be underwhelmed. While the performance won’t come close to the new 911’s there’s absolutely no doubt the experience will be insanely engaging and if they get it right it will be very rewarding. I’m always shocked with how fast I can go in the 964 once I got the suspension set up correctly.

Exactly. My old '88 would be considered boring if you were into the stop light drags, but as soon as things get curvy, I have no doubt that you could excite many/most passengers.

I suspect they are even more special as a driver.

[Rot 911]

I had a 1972 911 E and a 1986 3.2. I thought both of those were great cars until I bought my first Boxster S. I lost all interest in 911s after that.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

I had a 1972 911 E and a 1986 3.2. I thought both of those were great cars until I bought my first Boxster S. I lost all interest in 911s after that.

Hahahaha. I know what you mean. I will say this, there is something about driving the g body cars. They feel so solid. I have an 88 930 modded pretty heavily still nothing feels like it. Heavy steering, weight in the tail is felt in every corner.

I wouldn't buy an old or another air cool car. My next, if I ever buy another, will be a 997 turbo or 991S or maybe 997 GT3.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by look 171

Hahahaha. I know what you mean. I will say this, there is something about driving the g body cars. They feel so solid. I have an 88 930 modded pretty heavily still nothing feels like it. Heavy steering, weight in the tail is felt in every corner.

I wouldn't buy an old or another air cool car. My next, if I ever buy another, will be a 997 turbo or 991S or maybe 997 GT3.

Right, my Boxster S is great! But it doesn't have something (call it character or soul if you want) that my old '88 had. The old car felt more solid (and it was a targa). I loved the bottom hinged pedals. I loved the gauge layout. I loved the brake pedal and steering wheel feel, etc.... It had a bunch of stuff that added up to a different experience.

My boxster has more grip, more power, is faster, is more comfortable, has better AC, etc..., but I'd love a little more of the character of the older car.

On a related note. I'd read over and over and over again about the brakes on boxsters.

I'm sure that my car stops in a hurry, but I far preferred the brakes on my old '88. The '88 had power brakes, but had a hard short pedal throw compared to the boxster. The Boxster never has a hard pedal. When I got it, it only had ~20k miles and was CPO. Since I've had it, the pads and rotors have been replaced once. I think the brake fluid has been flushed at least once, maybe two or three times.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by masraum

Right, my Boxster S is great! But it doesn't have something (call it character or soul if you want) that my old '88 had. The old car felt more solid (and it was a targa). I loved the bottom hinged pedals. I loved the gauge layout. I loved the brake pedal and steering wheel feel, etc.... It had a bunch of stuff that added up to a different experience.

My boxster has more grip, more power, is faster, is more comfortable, has better AC, etc..., but I'd love a little more of the character of the older car.

On a related note. I'd read over and over and over again about the brakes on boxsters.

I'm sure that my car stops in a hurry, but I far preferred the brakes on my old '88. The '88 had power brakes, but had a hard short pedal throw compared to the boxster. The Boxster never has a hard pedal. When I got it, it only had ~20k miles and was CPO. Since I've had it, the pads and rotors have been replaced once. I think the brake fluid has been flushed at least once, maybe two or three times.

I like the brake feel of my old 930 more. I can't seem to explain it but it has bigger turbo brakes vs the 3.2L cars and it isn't power assisted. Don't get me wrong, the Cayman S has great brakes, feels very powerful and stops the car very well. It just feels mushy ( if that's even a fair comparison?) compared to my 88 930. Was at the track messing around with the Cayman few weeks ago. Getting from 120 to 50 was not an issue within short distances. Doing that in the 930 just feels different. More solid feel? I do know I have to jam on the pedal harder, to get it to stop within that distance at that speed.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by look 171

Don't get me wrong, the Cayman S has great brakes, feels very powerful and stops the car very well. It just feels mushy ( if that's even a fair comparison?) More solid feel? I do know I have to jam on the pedal harder, to get it to stop within that distance at that speed.

Yep, exactly. I believe at least part of it is the ratio of master cylinder piston surface area to caliper piston surface area. If I could bolt on a different, larger master cylinder, and the brakes would work as well with no impact to ABS, I'd do it in a second. I suspect it's not a "bolt on" mod.

[Marine Blue]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yep, exactly. I believe at least part of it is the ratio of master cylinder piston surface area to caliper piston surface area. If I could bolt on a different, larger master cylinder, and the brakes would work as well with no impact to ABS, I'd do it in a second. I suspect it's not a "bolt on" mod.

Agreed, my 987 Spyder brakes are mushy too, from what I’ve read it was baked into the 987 models to make them easier to drive but the result is not confidence inspiring to say the least. I much prefer the brake feel of my 964.

The 997 GT3 Master Cylinder is the solution and doesn’t require any modification to the chassis or brakes to make it work, at least on the 987.2.

[look 171]

Steve. my friend has Pagid pads and it stops better, so much that I can tell immediately this is just jamming on it street driving. On the track, its a pretty big difference. It does sequel a bit.

[SCadaddle]

Old guys in 993 Carerras.

Ok, I was going to confess, now I've been outed so I will confess.....

2 a.m. this past Friday June 24th I had driven from central Mississippi in the Ford Taurusaurus to about 2 hours south of Cincinatti on my way to Cleveland on I 71. I pulled into a rest area to try and get a wink. I parked on the left side of a black 993 Carrera sporting Ontario plates, that only thought he was taking up 2 parking spots. Solo older fellow sacked out hat over his face in the passengers seat. I thought cool, maybe I'll get a chance to converse Porsche a little later on with him. Maybe just maybe he's a part of the Pelican flock.

I get in the back seat of the Taurusaurus and stretch out, cracked the windows to breath locked the doors with the keyfob. Tossed and turned til about 4 a.m. when I got a double charlie horse in my legs.

I freaked HAD to get out of the car and opened the door by unlocking it manually.

The car alarm went off.

Seconds later found the keyfob to cut the alarm off. Talk about feeling bad. Yeah, I'm an idiot. Stretched a bit then hauled ass on my way to Cleveland.

So, to the dude with the black 993 Carerra sporting Ontario plates sacked out at the rest area heading north on I-71 south of Cincinatti, I'm sorry!

[sc_rufctr]

The 993 is a fantastic car. I doubt you'd ever have a problem finding a buyer.

A friend owned a tired high millage example for close to 15 years and he sold it about 4 years ago. He was asking $76k at the time (an older gentleman bought the car). At the time good low millage examples were well over $100k. This car had traveled almost 200k miles (320,000 km) and it still ran well. The engine and gearbox had never been apart but the clutch and pressure plate had been replaced. Other than that only normal wear items. (Tires, brake pads, disks, shock absorbers, filters etc.)

Today... A good clean low millage example is close to the price of a brand new 911. In some cases well over but a good 996 would be lucky to make $50K locally. That's a lot lower than a good 911 SC! That's just nuts when you think about it.

[KNS]

I have a '95 C2. I prefer the classic lines of the earlier cars but the driving experience of the 993 is terrific. I think it's a bit heavy and could use more power but I am reminded of Jeremy Clarkson commenting on driving a Lamborghini: "There a wonderful sensation coming through the steering wheel, up you arms and to your brain" (or something along those lines..). That's what I feel when I'm in the 993. The G series cars are very good but in a different way.

Porsche did a great job on getting the handling and comfort just right. My car has Eibach springs and Bilstein HDs but is otherwise stock. I'm amazed that a car can corner so well and be fairly comfy at the same time.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

The 993 is a fantastic car. I doubt you'd ever have a problem finding a buyer.

A friend owned a tired high millage example for close to 15 years and he sold it about 4 years ago. He was asking $76k at the time (an older gentleman bought the car). At the time good low millage examples were well over $100k. This car had traveled almost 200k miles (320,000 km) and it still ran well. The engine and gearbox had never been apart but the clutch and pressure plate had been replaced. Other than that only normal wear items. (Tires, brake pads, disks, shock absorbers, filters etc.)

Today... A good clean low millage example is close to the price of a brand new 911. In some cases well over but a good 996 would be lucky to make $50K locally. That's a lot lower than a good 911 SC! That's just nuts when you think about it.

You're talking Australian dollars, not real dollars, right? Cars have always been crazy expensive over there, even with the exchange rate factored in.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by speeder

You're talking Australian dollars, not real dollars, right? Cars have always been crazy expensive over there, even with the exchange rate factored in.

Normal cars are a little more expensive but Porsche cars down here have always been ridiculous.

A brand new Carrera starts at $241,300 AUD ($163,446.18 US)

[masraum]

Originally Posted by speeder

You're talking Australian dollars, not real dollars, right? Cars have always been crazy expensive over there, even with the exchange rate factored in.

That made me laugh. When I read his post, I thought "holy carp," and then I realized he was posting from Aus. I had considered posting that he was talking about "play money."

[jhynesrockmtn]

I really thought I wanted a 993 until I drove a C4 cabrio a few years ago. The power was very underwhelming. No way I could afford an S or a turbo version. I do love the looks and the fact they are the last of the air cooled. My 996 C4s was more fun to drive, better power, more comfortable, etc. I'll keep the 356 and 914 for analog fun. If I get a newer one, it will be a 997.2.

[Superman]

The 993 is thought to be somewhat of a girls' 911, but I happen to think they are very cool-looking.

[DWBOX2000]

I take back what I said earlier. Saw one this morning with non stock rims. Very nice looking.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

I take back what I said earlier. Saw one this morning with non stock rims. Very nice looking.

Initially I didn't like them. The first time I saw one IRL I thought "They've ruined the classic 911 shape".
- The 964 was great because they didn't change too much from original.

But the 993 grows on you.

[look 171]

First time I laid eyes on it, I was in love. I only learned about the 993s when I started shopping for my first 911.

I never like the 964, the red head step child, too much. That has grown on me a bit too.


What's not to to like about that fat azz

[911boost]

Having had a few air cooled and a few water cooled 911's now I think the only old air cooled I would get would be a 356 cab just for cruising, but I have my Westy to get my air cooled fix currently.

I really liked the interior of the older cars, including the 993 since they were just tiny evolutions. Ultimately though, the driving of the air cooled cars while very engaging and sometimes scary (my heavily modified 964T comes to mind) were not what I was currently looking for. The 993TT is AWD just like the 996.2TT I had and I liked how the 996 drove better. Of course part of that was because my 996TT was a low mileage cream puff.

In the end, and I know I am bias, but I think the 997.2 esp the the GT cars are a sweet spot for Porsche. I feel every single bump of the road and like my air cooled cars have to give all of my attention to it while driving.

And brakes, the PCCB's are like the hand of god reaching down and stopping you. They are that good and work just fine on the street.