They were never aggressive

[Scott R]

There are just as aggressive breeds, and in some case even more aggressive by the numbers, but Pitbull stories get the advertising clicks, and not Huskies.

https://www.newsweek.com/baby-killed-suspected-dog-attack-beauty-spot-two-arrested-1685840

[red 928]

I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!

We have a family tell us that
their pit bulls were loving, friendly,
and harmless for many years.
Right up until the killer instincts kicked in
and they brutally killed the family's children.

and of course, like every time we have people saying that
MY PITBULLS ARE DIFFFERENT
because they've been loving and friendly
and harmless for many years.

[berettafan]

I can’t imagine the horror.

It takes quite the mental leap to believe these dogs are a safe choice around children.

[DWBOX2000]

We have one that roams the neighborhood. He’s probably 40 lbs. My mil’s King Charles was more of a terror. It killed one of my rabbits and was always chasing my cat. The pit Bull was the opposite. He ignored the rabbits and has been chased from my yard numerous times by my cat. He’s been roaming now for 10 years and The only thing I’ve seen him aggressive towards is a tennis ball and a flock of turkeys. He didn’t attack, just barked like crazy, and he never barks. I’m not sure having two helped the situation here. Personally I wouldn’t have one. Just to hard to take anywhere or have people over without someone freaking out. I had a rottie 25 years ago. Great dog but everyone was scared of him. PITA.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

That is what the couple who lost two children said!

The small children that were left unattended with dogs.

Would the OP have posted if it were Labs that did it, or would the parents have been blamed? A 65lb poodle is quite capable of messing up a 2yo that pokes it one time too many. And they can be nasty buggers.

When there are more than one they feed off each other and it’s worse if they kick off.

We never left the kids alone with the dogs, and they knew from day one to leave them alone. No pokey, no hittie, no pulled tailee, nothing.

Stood them in good stead when they were older and we fostered rescue dogs with issues. They knew to leave them alone.

[Alan A]

I’ll add one thing - our current dog is mid size at about 85lbs. He’s pretty well behaved except when unknown people walk in the house. He wants attention and we can’t break him of the habit of jumping up at them. So we leash him for a few minutes to introduce him, or crate him if the person doesn’t like dogs.

The only other thing he has is he’s protective of the kids. He stands between them and strangers. I’m ok with that foible. He’s also asleep in my lap as I’m typing this, so I’ll admit to some bias.

So what?

We have a family member with two little 7lb rat dogs. Zero training ‘because they are cute’. They aren’t housebroken and they think the worlds their toilet. And like all small dogs they have a napoleon complex and will bite anyone and anything. She lets them roam freely. Scale that up to even a 30lb dog and consider what could happen…

Different dogs need different owners.

[rfuerst911sc]

There are parents and then there are responsible parents . There are pet owners and then there are responsible pet owners . Big difference in those scenarios . Nothing in life is 100 % other than death and taxes . But you have to work the odds , and the odds are a medium to large breed dog can/might cause harm at any moment.

Our current mutt is an Australian shepherd/German shepherd mix with supposedly some lab in there . We have a fenced yard for him to play in . When our children and grand children visit I watch Luke like a hawk . He has never done anything for me to watch him but he has the potential .

That's enough for me to keep an eye on him . And he knows I am watching . Does that guarantee there will never be a problem ? No it does not . But I believe I am doing everything I can to be a responsible pet owner .

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Alan A

The small children that were left unattended with dogs.

Would the OP have posted if it were Labs that did it, or would the parents have been blamed? A 65lb poodle is quite capable of messing up a 2yo that pokes it one time too many. And they can be nasty buggers.

When there are more than one they feed off each other and it’s worse if they kick off.

We never left the kids alone with the dogs, and they knew from day one to leave them alone. No pokey, no hittie, no pulled tailee, nothing.

Stood them in good stead when they were older and we fostered rescue dogs with issues. They knew to leave them alone.

We had a 35# dog that kind of looked like a stocky German Shepherd puppy. We have no idea what she was, and assume she was a mutt. I have no doubt that if she'd been triggered on a small child that she could have done plenty of damage.

Agreed, kids need to be taught to be gentle with animals, all of them. It's tough/impossible to ensure that kids never do anything when they are 18mo, 2 and even up to 3 they may still occasionally do something that they shouldn't. You have to watch the dogs and the kids like a hawk. Obviously, the bigger and stronger the dog, the more you have to watch.

Originally Posted by Alan A

I’ll add one thing - our current dog is mid size at about 85lbs. He’s pretty well behaved except when unknown people walk in the house. He wants attention and we can’t break him of the habit of jumping up at them. So we leash him for a few minutes to introduce him, or crate him if the person doesn’t like dogs.

The only other thing he has is he’s protective of the kids. He stands between them and strangers. I’m ok with that foible. He’s also asleep in my lap as I’m typing this, so I’ll admit to some bias.

So what?

We have a family member with two little 7lb rat dogs. Zero training ‘because they are cute’. They aren’t housebroken and they think the worlds their toilet. And like all small dogs they have a napoleon complex and will bite anyone and anything. She lets them roam freely. Scale that up to even a 30lb dog and consider what could happen…

Different dogs need different owners.

Not all pits snap and kill/maim. Actually, I assume the vast majority do not. If it was most of them, I'm sure they would be outlawed. But it seems that there's a higher percentage, and it seems that it's not uncommon for it to be serious when they do.

This is interesting. I have no idea where the data comes from so it could be a total load of carp. And the site hosting the data is a law office, which immediately makes me a little skeptical.
https://www.warriorsforjustice.com/dog-biting-statistics-by-breed/

1. Pit Bull
• Attacks: 3,397
• Deaths: 295

2. Rottweiler
• Attacks: 535
• Deaths: 8

3. German Shepherd
• Attacks: 113
• Deaths: 15

4. Presa Canario
• Attacks: 111
• Deaths: 18

5. Wolf-Dog Hybrids
• Attacks: 85
• Deaths: 19

Pitbull Attack Statistics
A staggering 65% of deaths from dog bite attacks come from pit bulls. Of the 433 total dog bite victim fatalities between 2005 and 2017, 284 came from the Pit Bull breed. While Pit Bulls are known to have incredibly strong jaws and razor-sharp teeth, these statistics could be somewhat misleading.*
Pit bulls have a much higher fatality rate when they attack humans than other breeds, but they are also the most abused breed in the United States. They are illegally used in dogfighting matches and provoked to aggressive behavior.*
Another aspect of these statistics is that Pit Bulls are more efficient with their attacks because of their strength. If a small breed such as a Chihuahua bites you, the likelihood of this bite being severe is low. Even if the Chihuahua breed bites more often, the statistics will not show that a Chihuahua is the most dangerous dog because their bites do not end in hospitalizations or fatalities.*
Dog Biting Statistics
Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Presa Canarios, and Wolf-Dog Hybrids have the top dog attacks by breed. There are a few other breeds with high statistics for bite attacks. Others worth mentioning are:
• Siberian Husky
• Akita
• Boxer
• Chow Chow
• Mutts
A dog is more likely to be in bite statistics when they possess specific physical characteristics.
• Strong musculature
• Muscular cheeks
• A large, strong jaw
• A robust, wide mouth
• A voluminous head
• Parallel, straight forelegs
• Muscular hindquarters*
These characteristics contribute to having a higher likelihood of being included in high bit-rate statistics.

The death:attack ratio of the pit bull is <10%. The German Shepherd and Presa Canario are both >10%, and the wolf hybrid is approaching 25%.

[gregpark]

Countries That Ban Pit Bulls
Some countries ban pit bulls entirely, while other countries leave it to regions such as states or provinces to make those decisions. This is a list of countries with pit bull bans that are specific:

Singapore: 1991, pit bulls allowed at home, banned from entering the country
Netherlands: 1993, complete pit bull ban
Poland: 1997, laws about fencing and reinforcements for pit bulls
France: 2000, a complete ban on pit bulls, with the intention the breed expires from the country
Germany: 2001, complete pit bull ban
Puerto Rico: 2001, complete pit bull ban
New Zealand: 2003, pit bulls were banned from entering the country
Italy: 2004, complete pit bull ban
Australia: 2009, pit bulls were banned from entering the country
Ecuador: 2009, pit bulls were banned as domestic animals or pets
Denmark: 2010, complete pit bulls ban and a ban on breeding
Venezuela: 2014, complete pit bull ban

How many cities in the US ban pit bulls?

More than 937 cities in the US have BSL legislation in place. View detailed lists. Many cities, including the largest US public housing authority in New York City, ban pit bulls through Housing Authorities. All military bases in the United States ban pit bulls

[masraum]

Originally Posted by gregpark

Countries That Ban Pit Bulls
Some countries ban pit bulls entirely, while other countries leave it to regions such as states or provinces to make those decisions. This is a list of countries with pit bull bans that are specific:

Singapore: 1991, pit bulls allowed at home, banned from entering the country
Netherlands: 1993, complete pit bull ban
Poland: 1997, laws about fencing and reinforcements for pit bulls
France: 2000, a complete ban on pit bulls, with the intention the breed expires from the country
Germany: 2001, complete pit bull ban
Puerto Rico: 2001, complete pit bull ban
New Zealand: 2003, pit bulls were banned from entering the country
Italy: 2004, complete pit bull ban
Australia: 2009, pit bulls were banned from entering the country
Ecuador: 2009, pit bulls were banned as domestic animals or pets
Denmark: 2010, complete pit bulls ban and a ban on breeding
Venezuela: 2014, complete pit bull ban

It sounds like in some/many cases above, if you've got them, you can keep them, but they don't want more to come into the country or to be bred.

And for a more full accounting, many of these countries don't ban only pit bulls. Many have bans on several breeds.

https://boogiethepug.com/banned-breeds/

[livi]

No reason to keep them around. Global extinction.

[svandamme]

Every "breed" was bread for a specific purpose, with focus on traits important for that purpose.

Most breeding is done for positive traits.. intelligence, ability to herd sheep, look, gentle character, hunting partners, guarding/protecting the house or lifestock


But a Pitbull.. the name itself already says it.. was bred for a negative: To be pitted against other dogs, to fight, to kill, for gambling purposes.

The traits needed, were not "lovable character", not "intelligence", not "good with children" or "gentle around the house".

No matter how well you raise such a puppy, it was bred for genetics that conflict with having them around in a house full of children. None of those traits are good in that context.

The traits are
Speed
Extremely powerful bite
Stubbornness,
Tenaciousness
Fearlessness

None of that makes sense in the house hold and around children, people or other dogs.
Anybody who tries to rationalize that you can keep em around the house, with kids is dillusional and lacks common sense.

Originally Posted by Alan A

We never left the kids alone with the dogs, and they knew from day one to leave them alone. No pokey, no hittie, no pulled tailee, nothing.

Stood them in good stead when they were older and we fostered rescue dogs with issues. They knew to leave them alone.

Clearly you do not lack common sense, but at the same time , it still does not make sense to me , to have kids in the house with dogs that clearly you don't trust either.

By your own statement, you didn't trust em, and instead you trusted your kids to not provoke the dogs. And then made sure the kids were never alone with the dog.

That kinda proves my point that they are not dogs for a household.. a dog should be the most loyal member, the one that protects your kids , that would jump on an attacker without hesitation..
That is smart enough to know the child might inavertedly pull its tails or ears. and be just fine with it...

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by livi

No reason to keep them around. Global extinction.

Then we can move on to people with undesirable characteristics too, right?

[svandamme]

So you consider people to be the same as dogs?
You know they are not, right?

Dogs are already put down with a lot less fuss then what is acceptable for human beings.
Because... they are not humans. they are dogs.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Every "breed" was bread for a specific purpose, with focus on traits important for that purpose.

Most breeding is done for positive traits.. intelligence, ability to herd sheep, look, gentle character, hunting partners, guarding/protecting the house or lifestock


But a Pitbull.. the name itself already says it.. was bred for a negative: To be pitted against other dogs, to fight, to kill, for gambling purposes.

The traits needed, were not "lovable character", not "intelligence", not "good with children" or "gentle around the house".

No matter how well you raise such a puppy, it was bred for genetics that conflict with having them around in a house full of children. None of those traits are good in that context.

The traits are
Speed
Extremely powerful bite
Stubbornness,
Tenaciousness
Fearlessness

None of that makes sense in the house hold and around children, people or other dogs.
Anybody who tries to rationalize that you can keep em around the house, with kids is dillusional and lacks common sense.



Clearly you do not lack common sense, but at the same time , it still does not make sense to me , to have kids in the house with dogs that clearly you don't trust either.

By your own statement, you didn't trust em, and instead you trusted your kids to not provoke the dogs. And then made sure the kids were never alone with the dog.

That kinda proves my point that they are not dogs for a household.. a dog should be the most loyal member, the one that protects your kids , that would jump on an attacker without hesitation..
That is smart enough to know the child might inavertedly pull its tails or ears. and be just fine with it...

This is going to go nowhere. You’ll never change opinions, but I’ll make 3 points.

1. Fighting dogs were bred for aggression to other dogs (or rats, or whatever). They needed to be handled, and the ones that showed aggression to their handlers were culled. A proper pit is naturally aggressive towards prey/small animals and other dogs, not people. Now molossors that were used to keep people in line (Presa Canaria I’m looking at you) don’t have that bred in. They need real careful handling.

2. Any dog will bite if you piss it off. If you leave a toddler alone with a dog you are an idiot. I wouldn’t leave a kid with either of those 7lb rat dogs, let alone something bigger.

3. In absolute numbers Labradors bite kids more than anything else. There are more of them and it’s reported less, but your kids more likely to be bit by a family Lab than pretty much anything else.

I’ll leave this - https://panterlaw.com/2016/10/26/study-finds-pit-bulls-less-aggressive-chihuahuas/ - it won’t change anyones mind, but do at least read it.

Lastly - consider how this would play out if you were talking about the behavior of people rather than dogs. I personally like most dogs better than most people…

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by svandamme

So you consider people to be the same as dogs?
You know they are not, right?

Dogs are already put down with a lot less fuss then what is acceptable for human beings.
Because... they are not humans. they are dogs.

I’d shoot you before I’d shoot my dog. How’s that work for you?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Alan A

This is going to go nowhere. You’ll never change opinions, but I’ll make 3 points.

1. Fighting dogs were bred for aggression to other dogs (or rats, or whatever). They needed to be handled, and the ones that showed aggression to their handlers were culled. A proper pit is naturally aggressive towards prey/small animals and other dogs, not people. Now molossors that were used to keep people in line (Presa Canaria I’m looking at you) don’t have that bred in. They need real careful handling.

2. Any dog will bite if you piss it off. If you leave a toddler alone with a dog you are an idiot. I wouldn’t leave a kid with either of those 7lb rat dogs, let alone something bigger.

3. In absolute numbers Labradors bite kids more than anything else. There are more of them and it’s reported less, but your kids more likely to be bit by a family Lab than pretty much anything else.

I’ll leave this - https://panterlaw.com/2016/10/26/study-finds-pit-bulls-less-aggressive-chihuahuas/ - it won’t change anyones mind, but do at least read it.

Lastly - consider how this would play out if you were talking about the behavior of people rather than dogs. I personally like most dogs better than most people…

Lots of good points there.

And pits aren't the only dangerous breed for sure. There are other dangerous and potentially more dangerous breeds out there depending upon how you look at things.

It might be similar to giving a 16 year old as their first car a car with 100hp or a car with 400hp. They can speed and get into accidents in both cars. But it's a lot easier (and quicker) to get into trouble with the 400hp car than the 100hp car.

You could compare this to dogs and dog attacks. Is a chihuahua or yorkie more aggressive and less well trained than a pit bull, german shepherd, etc...., yes, that seems to be fairly common. And it's not "right" but the reason is that the tiny dogs might hurt you, but they aren't likely to kill you. Hell, they'd probably have a hard time killing a baby unless there was a pack of them and they had time to do it.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Alan A

This is going to go nowhere. You’ll never change opinions, but I’ll make 3 points.

1. Fighting dogs were bred for aggression to other dogs (or rats, or whatever). They needed to be handled, and the ones that showed aggression to their handlers were culled. A proper pit is naturally aggressive towards prey/small animals and other dogs, not people. Now molossors that were used to keep people in line (Presa Canaria I’m looking at you) don’t have that bred in. They need real careful handling.

confirming what I said

Originally Posted by Alan A

2. Any dog will bite if you piss it off. If you leave a toddler alone with a dog you are an idiot. I wouldn’t leave a kid with either of those 7lb rat dogs, let alone something bigger.

Sure, but them rat dogs won't kill toddlers

Originally Posted by Alan A

3. In absolute numbers Labradors bite kids more than anything else. There are more of them and it’s reported less, but your kids more likely to be bit by a family Lab than pretty much anything else.

labradors killing kids? very unlikely

Originally Posted by Alan A

I’ll leave this - https://panterlaw.com/2016/10/26/study-finds-pit-bulls-less-aggressive-chihuahuas/ - it won’t change anyones mind, but do at least read it.

No doubt, but again, chihuahuas aren't going to kill a grown person, not even a toddler.

Originally Posted by Alan A

Lastly - consider how this would play out if you were talking about the behavior of people rather than dogs. I personally like most dogs better than most people…

No doubt, but the point is that most people won't kill other people simply because their buttons got pushed.
Some will, but the % of people that will kill when pushed is much lower then with Pitbulls. and again, pittbulls are not people.. they are dogs
They are not covered by a bill of rights.

Originally Posted by Alan A

I’d shoot you before I’d shoot my dog. How’s that work for you?

That says more about you then about pitbulls
Kinda confirming the pittbull owner prejudices with such statements..

[Alan A]

It’s not just pit bull owners. I have a friend with a couple of labs and I’ll bet good money he’d shoot you before he shot one of his dogs too.

[RobFrost]

Originally Posted by Alan A

I’d shoot you before I’d shoot my dog. How’s that work for you?

I understand where you're coking from, but see if you feel the same after one's killed your children.

There's a defect in the pit bull temperament which doesn't mix well with a dog of their strength and power. We have Staffordshire bull terriers in the UK, which are physically identical.

Incredible power - our bull terrier would take on a dog of any size, German shepherds, rottweilers, doberman, pin them down and make them submit. The bigger they were the more likely there'd be a fight. You would have to cross the road if somebody walked a big dog towards you but it inevitably happened from time to time.

If he had something in his jaws you categorically would not remove it unless he wanted you to. Dog toys would be shredded within minutes. We would give him old car tyres as toys and he would shred them within weeks. You could swing him round in circles by the tyre and he would look you dead in the eyes growling and never let go. People not knowing him were terrified of his growl but he was as soft as anything.

People illegally fight them because they never submit and fight to the death.

But they rarely hurt people despite being the most popular UK dog beeed. Pit bulls on the other hand, a minority breed, were always savaging people and killing both kids and adults, while bull terriers never do. So pit bulls were outlawed and the deaths stopped.

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