Getting back into cycling

[look 171]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

I tried 5/32 balls---too small. 3/16 is too big. I'm going to order 11/64 and 4.5 mm from McMaster Carr and see if one of those sizes works.

I'm really tempted to have Gilmour do the paint, maybe in a champaign white or pearl white. Just give him the frame and fork and write a check. I think the wheels I ordered are anodized black so that would give a good contrast.

Since you are going to spend the money to paint the frame, I suggest have them move the brake bridge lower so it works with 700c wheels, align the frame, face the bottom bracket and head set. Remove the eyelids. Are you ever going touring in this? I know you are attached to the frame but I think its still a touring, sports frame. You may find the frame to be lazy coming out of corners once you get into shape. I am not sure i all this is important to you? I have had body shops paint frames before with great result and the cost is about 300 bucks with me doing the prep and stickers

[otto_kretschmer]

I was never into racing or competitions. There was a book I read a few years ago. The author divided people into "herders" and "farmers". I'm more of a farmer. I used to go on rides with friends as a kid. A bicycle gave us freedom to explore.

The book is called Outliers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)

Its an interesting read.

I'm still thinking about building a carbon frame. Essentially it would go together like the PVC plumbing under your sink. I would make molds to make the parts and everything would be glued together with JB Weld. Conceptually simple but more difficult in execution. I have two friends in LA who are senior stress analysis at one of the companies I worked for. I'll have to go talk to them. Unfortunately most of their experience is in inconel. One of them has a favorite saying "if you want it quick, make it thick". I think he was talking about the time to do an analysis.

If I get a chance to talk to Gilmour I'll ask if this is a touring, race or general purpose frame.

[MFAFF]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

I tried 5/32 balls---too small. 3/16 is too big. I'm going to order 11/64 and 4.5 mm from McMaster Carr and see if one of those sizes works.

I'm really tempted to have Gilmour do the paint, maybe in a champaign white or pearl white. Just give him the frame and fork and write a check. I think the wheels I ordered are anodized black so that would give a good contrast.

Let us know how you get on with those bearings... 11/64 is rare.

White is great on steel frames.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

I was never into racing or competitions. There was a book I read a few years ago. The author divided people into "herders" and "farmers". I'm more of a farmer. I used to go on rides with friends as a kid. A bicycle gave us freedom to explore.

The book is called Outliers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)

Its an interesting read.

I'm still thinking about building a carbon frame. Essentially it would go together like the PVC plumbing under your sink. I would make molds to make the parts and everything would be glued together with JB Weld. Conceptually simple but more difficult in execution. I have two friends in LA who are senior stress analysis at one of the companies I worked for. I'll have to go talk to them. Unfortunately most of their experience is in inconel. One of them has a favorite saying "if you want it quick, make it thick". I think he was talking about the time to do an analysis.

If I get a chance to talk to Gilmour I'll ask if this is a touring, race or general purpose frame.

No need to be racing to get a race bike. Touring bikes are a bit longer and more stable for all day comfort in the saddle but when it comes to cornering or carving down a mountain side, its a bit slower and less responsive like driving a 911 vs a Camry. Both will get you there but the question is, how much fun. i think there are bike made in between called sports touring bikes. The carbon frame build sounds like fun. Keep us in the loop

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by MFAFF

Let us know how you get on with those bearings... 11/64 is rare.

White is great on steel frames.

I bought 5/32 balls from a bike shop. They make the axel spin smoothly but the cones are too far into the hub. I can't get a spanner on the flats to adjust them. Maybe it will work if I take the dust covers off for the adjustment.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

I bought 5/32 balls from a bike shop. They make the axel spin smoothly but the cones are too far into the hub. I can't get a spanner on the flats to adjust them. Maybe it will work if I take the dust covers off for the adjustment.

Get at the cones from the other side and pull the axle.

[otto_kretschmer]

Anyone have two Campagnolo cones sitting around in their tool box?

8x20

These cones are my problem with the hub. Someone put non campy parts in a long time ago. I can't find them on ebay or anywhere else so they seem to become unobtanium.

If this is really a problem there are plenty of old Shimano hubs on ebay.

[look 171]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364189972566?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110 006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D24741 4%26meid%3D623f18fd6a4f4f5c91663c1c8db54349%26pid% 3D101195%26rk%3D11%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D291444881656% 26itm%3D364189972566%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D20 47675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithLamb da85KnnRecallV1V4V6ItemNrtInQueryAndCassiniVisualR ankerAndBertRecallCPCBlended%26brand%3DCampagnolo&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A364189972566623f18fd6a4f4f5c91663c1 c8db54349%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAABUMzHrtmBs5dQ%252FHIG5%25 2BRfYnxi7NXGqhNmkIynG8%252FJUFU8mFH0LR4rYiCzTE7ooZ G50CTrFa800zEyCYXzaLce6aP2sNHYQFVEwDm5p%252FLuk%25 2FSeZYJ4KDvPkFH59OJf3XeGeYKecqqQTdGEPj5LqiOXakWNON KN1gaTE56DMZkT0s6Pq171xxBtYskWL0l909oSU0p4hwCfJqwl VWFxxGu9HX579Y4WC6TCZ5Wc9xqz4fSmp%252F7ZPXFsYrff4r PmaFCF2A3F4Rlv4TUZqQY7clkf8l7Ue6DSr6Z0LwaY%252BwRq txtKRhmMLQ2Iv7EcjphhsXcfqU0RQNKrrDi2wYV8KW4ZUp1ISV KzEzTnCCaC3OnStSZR1WbG%252FRCcAgzftuFegKFhx39uF%25 2FFlihe3juHrcozVGNe8uptwWVZKLPRi6xYjxoOCykylzm%252 FE85AnMAq1JHGFbQ%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp% 3A2047675

Will this do? I am not sure what those campy hubs are. If they are record or super record, then parts will be easier to find but if those were some rare bmx or off road parts, then you are in for a deep dig. I haven't not taken apart an old Campy road hub for a loooong time. Peter will know or he may even have a large parts bin. he knows these bikes and parts well.

[look 171]

Hey its Campy, small parts should be available through your local bike shop.

that hub or your, freewheel or cassette?

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by look 171

Hey its Campy, small parts should be available through your local bike shop.

that hub or your, freewheel or cassette?

front hub

I'm going to go to the oldest bike shop in town and see if they have anyone who knows vintage bikes

I took apart my sisters race bike's front wheel, pulled the axle out and it worked perfectly in the hub I want to use. Her hub is a Record and mine doesn't say anything but the Camp winged wheel.

The cone on her hub is stamped 8x20 aka 8mm axle and I guess 20mm width

I've seen Shimano 105 hubs for $30 so I could just have a Shimano in front and a Campy in the back

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by look 171

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364189972566?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110 006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D24741 4%26meid%3D623f18fd6a4f4f5c91663c1c8db54349%26pid% 3D101195%26rk%3D11%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D291444881656% 26itm%3D364189972566%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D20 47675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithLamb da85KnnRecallV1V4V6ItemNrtInQueryAndCassiniVisualR ankerAndBertRecallCPCBlended%26brand%3DCampagnolo&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A364189972566623f18fd6a4f4f5c91663c1 c8db54349%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAABUMzHrtmBs5dQ%252FHIG5%25 2BRfYnxi7NXGqhNmkIynG8%252FJUFU8mFH0LR4rYiCzTE7ooZ G50CTrFa800zEyCYXzaLce6aP2sNHYQFVEwDm5p%252FLuk%25 2FSeZYJ4KDvPkFH59OJf3XeGeYKecqqQTdGEPj5LqiOXakWNON KN1gaTE56DMZkT0s6Pq171xxBtYskWL0l909oSU0p4hwCfJqwl VWFxxGu9HX579Y4WC6TCZ5Wc9xqz4fSmp%252F7ZPXFsYrff4r PmaFCF2A3F4Rlv4TUZqQY7clkf8l7Ue6DSr6Z0LwaY%252BwRq txtKRhmMLQ2Iv7EcjphhsXcfqU0RQNKrrDi2wYV8KW4ZUp1ISV KzEzTnCCaC3OnStSZR1WbG%252FRCcAgzftuFegKFhx39uF%25 2FFlihe3juHrcozVGNe8uptwWVZKLPRi6xYjxoOCykylzm%252 FE85AnMAq1JHGFbQ%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp% 3A2047675

Will this do? I am not sure what those campy hubs are. If they are record or super record, then parts will be easier to find but if those were some rare bmx or off road parts, then you are in for a deep dig. I haven't not taken apart an old Campy road hub for a loooong time. Peter will know or he may even have a large parts bin. he knows these bikes and parts well.

Thats coming from Italy and its rear.

Forks coming this week, maybe tomorrow and so are the rims

[look 171]

Oh, ok. There's some Campy small parts catalogue floating around on the net you can order from. That hub must be one of the rare ones made for a specific wheel. I can't see it too well from that pic.

What kind of spokes will you be using? I really like DT's double butted or aero spokes n those old wheels.

[otto_kretschmer]

I'll probably just use double butted spokes. I need to use a spoke calculator to figure out what spoke lengths I need.

[otto_kretschmer]

This is my idea of recycling

one pair of perfectly serviceable Campagnolo hubs ready to be laced up in a new set of wheels



I found cones on ebay and I wasn't sure they would work and it looks like they will serve. They're a little too long so I will have to chuck them in a lathe and cut maybe .080" off each to get the 100 mm fork spacing

they cleaned up nicely with a SOS pad, maybe I'll get a polish wheel and go a little more but they look ok as they are now

[look 171]

Pete, you think those hubs are Campy Grand Sport because there's no oil holes center of hub?

You are going old fashion, period correct. I think 7 spd maybe the largest freewheel? How's do they spin?

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by look 171

Pete, you think those hubs are Campy Grand Sport because there's no oil holes center of hub?

You are going old fashion, period correct. I think 7 spd maybe the largest freewheel? How's do they spin?

they spin OK, but I may use a little bit of valve grinding compound and make them better. Or just start riding on them and see if they break in after a couple hundred miles

I think the hubs are Nuovo Tipo. Probably the lowest level hubs they sold then.

I need to find a spoke calculator and get the spokes ordered.

A friend clued me into the Sheldon Brown website

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/

[look 171]

The internet make it easy now. have a look at these

https://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator

https://spokecalc.io/

You have to do a bit of digging, some web page, a hub make, type and rim can be entered and it spits out all the info needed.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

This is my idea of recycling

one pair of perfectly serviceable Campagnolo hubs ready to be laced up in a new set of wheels



I found cones on ebay and I wasn't sure they would work and it looks like they will serve. They're a little too long so I will have to chuck them in a lathe and cut maybe .080" off each to get the 100 mm fork spacing

they cleaned up nicely with a SOS pad, maybe I'll get a polish wheel and go a little more but they look ok as they are now

Love me some Campy

[otto_kretschmer]

The rims came today and look lovely.



And I found another hiccup on those cones. They are too wide as is and I need to remove .080 on each. I can do this on the lathe but I need an arbor. Maybe I can use the three jaw but there isn't a lot of meat to grab on so I started looking for something to make an arbor. The thread is M9x1.0 and that is the snag.

9mm thread is rare. I couldn't find anything at the usual hardware stores. Then I went to the speciality fastener store and they had nothing. I was resigned to order it from McMaster Carr and wait a couple days but MC had nothing either. Nothing showed up on Amazon. McMaster Carr did have a M9x1.0 die for $48. So maybe I can chuck up a chunk of rebar in the lathe and cut it down and run the die to get the threads and have an arbor.

wtf,,, why is everything so difficult?

My brother told me the only thing he has in M9 is in the engine of his dune buggy (rod bolts). This made me go down another path. I have old rod and flywheel bolts for my BMW motorcycles and checked those but they were too big. Then I went back on Ebay and found 9mm rod bolts for VW type 1 engines for under $10 and a lot of other 9mm rod bolts for old Kawasakis and Polaris (snow mobiles?)

so... maybe get a VW rod bolt to make an arbor but then I remembered we have a surface grinder in our family machine shop. Doesn't everyone have a surface grinder in the corner that they use once every decade?

I have options: make an arbor with a VW rod bolt and use the lathe or use the surface grinder.

An easier way would be to buy a set of Shimano 105 hubs ($90) on Ebay and keep the Campy hubs as paperweights but this is becoming a issue of pride now. I'm not going to let these Campy hubs beat me.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

The rims came today and look lovely.



And I found another hiccup on those cones. They are too wide as is and I need to remove .080 on each. I can do this on the lathe but I need an arbor. Maybe I can use the three jaw but there isn't a lot of meat to grab on so I started looking for something to make an arbor. The thread is M9x1.0 and that is the snag.

9mm thread is rare. I couldn't find anything at the usual hardware stores. Then I went to the speciality fastener store and they had nothing. I was resigned to order it from McMaster Carr and wait a couple days but MC had nothing either. Nothing showed up on Amazon. McMaster Carr did have a M9x1.0 die for $48. So maybe I can chuck up a chunk of rebar in the lathe and cut it down and run the die to get the threads and have an arbor.

wtf,,, why is everything so difficult?

My brother told me the only thing he has in M9 is in the engine of his dune buggy (rod bolts). This made me go down another path. I have old rod and flywheel bolts for my BMW motorcycles and checked those but they were too big. Then I went back on Ebay and found 9mm rod bolts for VW type 1 engines for under $10 and a lot of other 9mm rod bolts for old Kawasakis and Polaris (snow mobiles?)

so... maybe get a VW rod bolt to make an arbor but then I remembered we have a surface grinder in our family machine shop. Doesn't everyone have a surface grinder in the corner that they use once every decade?

I have options: make an arbor with a VW rod bolt and use the lathe or use the surface grinder.

An easier way would be to buy a set of Shimano 105 hubs ($90) on Ebay and keep the Campy hubs as paperweights but this is becoming a issue of pride now. I'm not going to let these Campy hubs beat me.

You made it difficult by using those Campy hubs. They must be rare or one-offs. Campy parts are still pretty easy to get, a shop must be willing to order them for you. Most people don't want to order a 12 dollar part only to discovered its wrong and get stuck with it not to mention the time it takes to make sure its the correct cone for your hub. Call some of your local shop that have connection with Euroasia imports (La Crescenta CA). They have that stuff hanging around. If you are heart set on Campy, there are used hubs out there for a couple hundred bucks. You next issue will be the freewheel. The gearing is limited and the rear derailleur form that era has a max cog size limited. A Campy super Record is limited at 27 tooth, if I remember correctly. What rear derailleur is going on it? Remember those cheap Chinese freewheels sucks. I would hate to see it go out on you on a hill climb. My favorite are the Suntour freewheel. Their Ultra 6,7 speed is bomb proof from that era. I couldn't break them and they last and last. The Regina Oro is a damn good freewheel but all those old stuff are pretty much worn and it is a PITA to overhaul them. What ever you do, don't get period correct and end up with a Regina America. I broke two of them within one season training and racing on them. I know Regina was the gold standard of the time.

If I am doing this, a typical Ultegra or Dura Ace hub will be in my hand because I know they are good and parts are available within 15-20 min drive from my house or a few clicks on the net. I really like seal bearing hubs from the mid 90s-2000. Its easy to replace just the bearings at the local bearing house. Simple and they last a long time. I had some American Classic hubs I beat to death and they just refuse to die. Look into those. Dare I say, some of the Chinese hubs are OK for general sport riding. I am unsure about racing and their smoothness but there's nothing to a hub but the bearing.