Apple Vision Pro

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Yea, the "human interaction" will all be fake. All the on-line people will be stunning good looking and just a fantasy.

It is coming, just like AI will change the world as much as the internet did.

Of course it's not real but the gaming industry has revolutionized film / video.

The ability to create hyper realistic interactive environments is practically elementary these days.

In my Alamo example you could quite literally walk around while all the battle action takes place.

You would see the real life structure / environment with AR elements inserted. You would hear gunshots, see smoke, people running past you. With Apples Spatial audio you would hear action in 3d. You would hear bullets whizzing past your head and not just the sound but in 3d audio. Even with your head still you would hear the direction it came from and where it went when it passed you. Toss in some haptics and you can mimic the sensation of it physically passing you.

If you were watching an AR actor speaking the sound would come from in front of you but if you turned around the origin of the sound would not change so you would hear it coming from behind you. It's super cool tech.

Toss in some AI and you could even have interactive unscripted conversations with AR characters.

The applications are really limitless.

The killer app I've had in the back of my head, eliminate the need for prescription glasses.

Effectively "rebroadcast" the world around you but in focus. No more reading glasses because built in accelerometers and distance detection should indicate you are looking at something close up and magnification can be adjusted on the fly. Compensate for environmental issues, no more busting out the phone and shining the flashlight on the menu so you can read it in a "mood lit" restaurant. The ability to zoom in on something for a closer look without having to actually get closer to it.

Game changing.

[Paul T]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Of course it's not real but the gaming industry has revolutionized film / video.

The ability to create hyper realistic interactive environments is practically elementary these days.

In my Alamo example you could quite literally walk around while all the battle action takes place.

You would see the real life structure / environment with AR elements inserted. You would hear gunshots, see smoke, people running past you. With Apples Spatial audio you would hear action in 3d. You would hear bullets whizzing past your head and not just the sound but in 3d audio. Even with your head still you would hear the direction it came from and where it went when it passed you. Toss in some haptics and you can mimic the sensation of it physically passing you.

If you were watching an AR actor speaking the sound would come from in front of you but if you turned around the origin of the sound would not change so you would hear it coming from behind you. It's super cool tech.

Toss in some AI and you could even have interactive unscripted conversations with AR characters.

The applications are really limitless.

The killer app I've had in the back of my head, eliminate the need for prescription glasses.

Effectively "rebroadcast" the world around you but in focus. No more reading glasses because built in accelerometers and distance detection should indicate you are looking at something close up and magnification can be adjusted on the fly. Compensate for environmental issues, no more busting out the phone and shining the flashlight on the menu so you can read it in a "mood lit" restaurant. The ability to zoom in on something for a closer look without having to actually get closer to it.

Game changing.

Now, that sounds pretty cool….that would be a game changer for sure.

[911_Dude]

I would love a pair for gaming. Simulators will be amazing. I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a pair of those in public. Looks like a dive mask. Also, not interested at all with that price point. Home entertainment system? Yeah cool if your by yourself all the time. Otherwise you need a set for everyone in the family.

I think really good VR and AR has its place. But this is very early stage. This rig will appear laughable in 10 years. I'll wait.

[herr_oberst]

I can't be the first person here who immediately thought of 'doggles' when I first saw the Vision Pro, right?

[cockerpunk]

I'm afraid AR is going to be like 3d TV ... a cool thing no one really asked for, and certainly no one was willing to pay for.

and VR as a full experience, is still easily another generation of chips away.

Curious how it sells. could be like tablets (a cool thing people were willing to pay for), or 3D TV (a cool thing people were not willing to pay for).

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

Here's a nicely articulate real-world synopsis and review of the thing:

This guy is the best tech reviewer on YouTube!

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

I'm afraid AR is going to be like 3d TV ... a cool thing no one really asked for, and certainly no one was willing to pay for.

and VR as a full experience, is still easily another generation of chips away.

Curious how it sells. could be like tablets (a cool thing people were willing to pay for), or 3D TV (a cool thing people were not willing to pay for).

Yes very expensive, more than $5k in Aus but I'd bet it will be a hit with the "Fan Boys" initially.
(Apple are also developing a less expensive option)

Meanwhile Dyson recently introduced their new robot vacuum cleaner and they're asking $2,400 (AUD in AUS).

- Dyson air purifier headphones! ($1K USD)

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

I'm afraid AR is going to be like 3d TV ... a cool thing no one really asked for, and certainly no one was willing to pay for.

Completely different ball of wax.

Mass adoption requires content, content is king.

The ability / accessibility of content creation is what is different here.

3D TV had virtually no consumer accessible tools.

And this is the brilliance of what Apple has done.

They have built free end user consumer friendly apps so that virtually anyone can build content.

Model creation is not an easy thing to do. It's still very much the domain of high end expensive tools.

Photogrammetry is method anyone with a camera can use to create 3d models from everyday objects / environments.

Problem is the better photogrammetry tools are not cheap and most require a CUDA capable GPU.

Apple built a photogrammetry stack into Monterey, the previous OS.

Meaning a $900 MacBook Air can create 3d models that are comparable to what you would have needed a 16GB windows box with a $1,200 gpu to accomplish.

Sure the stack does not have all the bells and whistles of Agisoft, Zephyr or Reality Captured but it doesn't need to because the content users will be creating does not require the features of commercial grade software suites that have been a decade in development.

No one "wanted or needed" your crappy 360x240 shaky ass blurry home video either.

Good thing youtube didn't listen to the pundits and made sure the content creation was accessible to the masses.

[jyl]

Haven't dug deeply into Vision Pro but from what I've read/watched, the hardware differentiation is . . .

1. External display, lets people see your eyes and reactions (when you want them to).
2. Eye tracking, the goggle knows exactly what you're looking at, so no need for controllers in your hands to point at icons - you just look at the icon and pinch your fingers. It watches your fingers, you can't have your hand in a pocket but don't have to hold it out in any specific place.
3. Not positive, but seems like the pass-through may be at a new level, meaning you see external things almost exactly like you would without goggles.

#2 (and #3 if true) are clearly big pluses. I am struggling a little with #1.
- You're in an in-person meeting wearing your Vision Pro with other people who are not wearing VR goggles; okay they can see your eyes/reaction, but why are you wearing the goggles, should everyone in the meeting be seeing the same information?
- You're in an in-person meeting where everyone is wearing VR goggles, and you all want to see each others' eyes/reactions without using goofy avatars; okay, if the pass-through is really good, but how about the one person who is attending virtually, what does he see?
- You're at a social event wearing your goggles and want people to see your eyes/reaction; wait, are you an incel or something?
- You're out walking wearing your goggles and want passerby to see . . . look, you'd better be thinking about their reaction.

If the goggles ever get slimmed down to "large eyeglasses" form factor, then maybe. You could talk to hot chicks and constantly stare down their cleavage, while the front screen shows you looking deeply into their eyes the whole time. I still think wearing AR glasses at social events marks you as Unfkable, but what do I know.

I tried working in VR with Immersed and Quest 2, it was 90% of the way there but the last 10% was a problem (eye displays not quite good enough for fine print, and pass-through not good enough to type on physical keyboard.) I've thought of trying again with Quest Pro, now that the price is down to $1,000.

[flatbutt]

There was a Christopher Walken movie "Brainstorm" that featured a device that would record the users brain while undergoing any kind of experience. The sex sequence caused a character to nearly lose his mind by playing the recording on loop. This VR could easily mimic that.

[stealthn]

So I’ll chime back in as we have some experienced users here.

In comments about AR for businesses, Google glass did just what you are talking about; assisting in training, location services, and integration into functional business uses. They did this very well and they were glasses. Apples are still a couple years out.

The issues were cost, battery life, and acceptance. As well as the issue of practical application for each business (the backend is really where all the work is). I worked with a developer on a HoloLens project “anchoring” displays to certain rooms so the same displays would be visible in each room entered and across users. There is a lot of possibilities here across all functions especially in augmented safety, training, and instant access to information.

IMHO Apple probably has the best shot at long term viability in this space as other manufacturers let politics compromise the offering, but they need to be like glasses, not ski goggles, and you need all day battery life, or the ability to seamless change to another pair without losing the personal functions you have already been using.

I am excited to see where this goes, but it really sits with the developers, integrators and access to massive DB’s and AI.

[jyl]

I've always thought one market for AR (not VR) glasses/goggles would be sports. Not e-sports, but IRL sports. Paired with sport-specific sensors, AR glasses could show you: distance to hole, wind speed/direction; heart rate, power, cadence, grade, and speed; speed, weight distribution, alert for skiier behind, location of your buddies on the mountain; etc. Built in camera would replace the helmet mounted GoPro too. Need a giant like AAPL to develop the tech. However, for sports you can't have pass-through, you need to see the outside world optically.

[sc_rufctr]

[sc_rufctr]

"Luv" from "Blade Runner 2049".

[jyl]

“I tried working in VR with Immersed and Quest 2, it was 90% of the way there but the last 10% was a problem (eye displays not quite good enough for fine print, and pass-through not good enough to type on physical keyboard.) I've thought of trying again with Quest Pro, now that the price is down to $1,000.”

I’ve been trying to figure out if I could adopt Vision Pro for this work use (multiple monitor work envt). The resolution is so much better than Quest 2 or Quest Pro. The problem is that I don’t see Apple rushing to integrate with Windows.

[jyl]

Doing some reading on eyewear display technology.

Apparently the Google Glass idea (regular eyeglasses with displays, either viewed directly or projected on the lens) is still out there, and the latest models look sort of maybe like regular eyeglasses of the chunky ‘50s sort.

There is a technology that uses lasers to send images directly to the retina, this is more for people with very impaired vision.

I actually wouldn’t mind eyeglasses that were sort of bifocals - purely optical lens for the most part, with information projected onto or displayed in a small section at the bottom of the lens. The thing is what sort of information is much better viewed in eyeglasses rather than on your phone or watch? As mentioned above, this feels like more of a sports situation, or during another hands-free activity. I do think the on-eyeglass camera has to be ditched, if this sort of thing is to be acceptable in ordinary social interactions. And it would be great if there were a way to control the eyeglasses other than reaching up and tapping the temples, that being a distracting action to those around you.

Also, I can see people getting used to interacting with other people who are wearing AR glasses, if they are stylish and cool. Think of L.A., Miami, you can hang out with a group and never see anyone’s eyes behind their sunglasses. Maybe someday taking off your AR glasses will be a gesture of intimacy. But Vision Pro isn’t stylish at all - Johny Ive must be grossed out - and neither are any current VR goggles or AR glasses.

[sc_rufctr]

Do you want to see an excellent example of "Marketing"?

Using "Dreamer" (the Supertramp song) alone would have cost millions!



RIP Mr Jobs.

[sc_rufctr]

[jyl]

Well, I wonder if my words (two posts above) are tasty, should I have to eat them, because I bought a pair of Ray-Ban Meta glasses. I have the stock in portfolios, and this Meta product is getting significant buzz online, so call it investment research and a business expense.

First reactions, very very preliminary
- Setup is easy, there are quite a few steps because you need to authorize the glasses to connect to your apps, photos, location, contacts, and so on, but it’s straightforward
- They look like Ray-Bans, with thicker temples (not noticeable except if you’re inspecting them), discreet slits for speakers and mics, and two not-so-discreet circles on the corners of the frame at the temples, being camera lens and notification LED to tell people you’re taking a photo or video. LED cannot be turned off or covered up.
- I snapped a photo, shot a bit of video, simple enough. I don’t think I care much about the photo aspect and even less about the video aspect, but I might be surprised.
- The speakers and mics make the glasses usable for listening to music, phone calls, voice commands (“Send a message to _____”, “Call ______”, etc), and voice interaction. Haven’t checked on sound quality on either end of a call, yet.
- What is the second most interesting thing to me is that you can ask it questions which are answered, verbally, by Meta’s generative AI via your phone and its internet connection. Not confirmed yet, but I think this will be similar to Chat GPT, Bing AI, Bard AI, etc in capabilities and limitations.
- What is the most interesting thing to me is still in beta and I don’t have access to it, yet. Meta’s AI can look through the glasses’ camera and give you information about what it sees. What kind of information I don’t know, it will probably start out limited and evolve and be subject to privacy issues. Translating stuff, identifying things, probably not identifying people, and I don’t know what else.

I saw a video about how smart glasses and VR-AR goggles are starting from opposite ends of the continuum and trying to race to the middle. Meta has both ends of the race covered, with Quest 3 and Meta glasses.

The Quest 2 was interesting even for a non-gamer. My only goal was to work in VR (with multiple virtual monitors) and it was maybe 80% of the way there. From reports, the Quest 3 may have closed the gap, I’ll have to get a pair to try out.

Apple’s Vision Pro sounds very impressive, but $3,500? I read an estimate that Apple has sold about 200,000 pairs. That’s not nothing, but isn’t a lot either.

[john70t]

'Surveillance Camera Man' troll walked around in 2018, filming random people until they got pissed off.

I'm not sure how a public surveillance network is beneficial to society.

In certain settings, with prior consent approval, sure. SM has a good example of VR AI uses. Photogrammetry mapping? I would personally love to have that while driving around. What is that beautiful building and when was it built. How do I get to the nearest dog park or grocery store and what does it look like.

But there is also informational overload. When is it too much for safety and the cord needs to be cut.

But we all know there are no privacy laws in place regarding corporate retention or use of data, and it will not be limited to that setting. As soon they start looking like common glasses kids will be gaming during class and getting answers for the test. That's just the tip of the iceberg for abuse.

All that facial recognition and biometric data can be used to deepfake and steal identities.
It's basically stalking. But by a corporate personhood.
(I'm a professional model and charge $1M per still image btw)