Jeep Wrangler overheated today. Head gasket blown or worse

[mthomas58]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

I wonder if it'd pay to get some Oil Eater fluid and use it to flush the system.
I can take a pic of the bottle I have out in the garage if you'd like to see what it says.

I've picked up a bottle of Blue Devil Radiator Flush and Oil Degreaser that I'm going to use on the first flush cycle and low sudsing dishwasher powder thereafter.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by mthomas58

Well I've had the Jeep repaired and have been driving for about three weeks. They replaced the radiator, water pump, overflow tank, Oil cooler with the Dorman aluminium housing, and all coolant hoses. Total repair with extensive labor flushing to oil out of the system was $3,200. Runs great and oil remains steady at normal operating temp. HOWEVER, I too am seeing recurring oil sludge in the top of the overflow tank which I contiinue to clean out regularly. They told me they were unable to flush all of the oil out of the block and advised me to return for a radiator flush after running 200 miles. After extensive research on the interwebs I'm planning on flushing the system myself using low sudsing dishwater powder and water then disconnecting radiator and heater core hoses and flushing everything in both directions. I'll do as many iterations as I need to get all of the oil out ( guessing 3 or 4 times) I'm guessing this will take half a day or longer and I'm not confident the shop will be as diligent as I intend to be. I'll measure the flushing results by collecting and comparing water bottles of each flush cycle - should be interesting!

I don't know how difficult it would be to get to on your engine, but one thing that really helps speed up system flushing is to temporarily remove the thermostat, that way you can pump water/cleaner mix through there unobstructed and do not have to wait around for the mix to warm up enough to open the thermostat each time (if you are doing a fill/closed system, run engine, and dump coolant type process).

[juanbenae]

I have a 15 JK and having done a ton of research our motors are very prone to overheating. They run hot by design for emissions and Crysler screwed up big using less than worthy valvetrain materials. Not to mention a plastic oil cooler, horrible thermostats, water pumps and a factory fan that does not kick on until 226*. The other thing is the oil filter housing at the top of the motor does not have a check valve so after an hour or so all the oil drains back into the pan so every start is a dry start for the valve train. another issue with the early 3.6's was that the block sand casting leavins were not removed effectively. do a search for "sand in my cooling system overflow".

I've put in a Baxter filter adapter that has a check valve and holds a 1/3 of a qt or so to cover that 3-4 seconds the oil pump needs to push fluid when starting. Did my second oil change after 3500 miles that are mostly trails and rocks and waiting on Blackstone data. I watch mine closely all the time.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

I have a 15 JK and having done a ton of research our motors are very prone to overheating. They run hot by design for emissions and Crysler screwed up big using less than worthy valvetrain materials. Not to mention a plastic oil cooler, horrible thermostats, water pumps and a factory fan that does not kick on until 226*. The other thing is the oil filter housing at the top of the motor does not have a check valve so after an hour or so all the oil drains back into the pan so every start is a dry start for the valve train. another issue with the early 3.6's was that the block sand casting leavins were not removed effectively. do a search for "sand in my cooling system overflow".

I've put in a Baxter filter adapter that has a check valve and holds a 1/3 of a qt or so to cover that 3-4 seconds the oil pump needs to push fluid when starting. Did my second oil change after 3500 miles that are mostly trails and rocks and waiting on Blackstone data. I watch mine closely all the time.

Did not know that. Looked on some forums and some of the guys say it's no big deal but I think it's a little strange. Should we thank the cost accountant for saving $$ on that anti drain back valve?

I've had my fill on a 2016 RAM 3.6. Three replacements of the oil cooler and finally ended up buying factory. The owner brings it to me for oil changes as at least I know the filter torque specs. No metal Dorman units could be purchased at the time. Sold out.

Purging the air from the coolant is really important. FWIW, there was an air purge valve on the thermo housing that was hard to see and get to on the RAM as the engine is so far down into the engine bay. You would have to read or be told it was there to know.

[mthomas58]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

I have a 15 JK and having done a ton of research our motors are very prone to overheating. They run hot by design for emissions and Crysler screwed up big using less than worthy valvetrain materials. Not to mention a plastic oil cooler, horrible thermostats, water pumps and a factory fan that does not kick on until 226*. The other thing is the oil filter housing at the top of the motor does not have a check valve so after an hour or so all the oil drains back into the pan so every start is a dry start for the valve train. another issue with the early 3.6's was that the block sand casting leavins were not removed effectively. do a search for "sand in my cooling system overflow".

I've put in a Baxter filter adapter that has a check valve and holds a 1/3 of a qt or so to cover that 3-4 seconds the oil pump needs to push fluid when starting. Did my second oil change after 3500 miles that are mostly trails and rocks and waiting on Blackstone data. I watch mine closely all the time.

I ran across a YouTube video a few weeks ago featuring the Baxter filter adapter and was intrigued with the concept but somewhat put off by the price not understanding how critical the problem of 3-4 seconds of no oil at startup is.

[mthomas58]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Did not know that. Looked on some forums and some of the guys say it's no big deal but I think it's a little strange. Should we thank the cost accountant for saving $$ on that anti drain back valve?

I've had my fill on a 2016 RAM 3.6. Three replacements of the oil cooler and finally ended up buying factory. The owner brings it to me for oil changes as at least I know the filter torque specs. No metal Dorman units could be purchased at the time. Sold out.

Purging the air from the coolant is really important. FWIW, there was an air purge valve on the thermo housing that was hard to see and get to on the RAM as the engine is so far down into the engine bay. You would have to read or be told it was there to know.

This is actually my second oil filter housing failure on this jeep. First time I just had an oil leak and the dealer replaced with the OEM Mopar plastic filter housing.

I picked up a large funnel kit that attaches to the radiator in lieu of the cap that allows the coolant system to burp the air out of the system with heat on.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I40ZQWE?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by mthomas58

I ran across a YouTube video a few weeks ago featuring the Baxter filter adapter and was intrigued with the concept but somewhat put off by the price not understanding how critical the problem of 3-4 seconds of no oil at startup is.

i researched the dry starts extensively and it in combination with the rocker failures prevalent in the 3.6 350 bucks seemed like a good investment. For the 1st year or so i used another method discussed in many forums was to bury the gas pedal to the floor and turn over the starter for 3-4 seconds. this will prevent the motor from firing getting oil up top before a start at a lower RPM with the starter getting the oil pump & filter housing primed..

if you have someone start it while the hood is open and the plastic motor cover off you can hear the valve train tick for a few seconds until oil makes its way to where it should be. if the ticking does not go away you have a problem signaling you have rocker issues. it's more common than one may think and there is at least one class action suit against Crysler due to the failures going on. The "tick" can seldom be heard from the cabin and while driving. YRMV.

[mthomas58]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

i researched the dry starts extensively and it in combination with the rocker failures prevalent in the 3.6 350 bucks seemed like a good investment. For the 1st year or so i used another method discussed in many forums was to bury the gas pedal to the floor and turn over the starter for 3-4 seconds. this will prevent the motor from firing getting oil up top before a start at a lower RPM with the starter getting the oil pump & filter housing primed..

if you have someone start it while the hood is open and the plastic motor cover off you can hear the valve train tick for a few seconds until oil makes its way to where it should be. if the ticking does not go away you have a problem signaling you have rocker issues. it's more common than one may think and there is at least one class action suit against Crysler due to the failures going on. The "tick" can seldom be heard from the cabin and while driving. YRMV.

Thanks for the information. I get one ordered.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by mthomas58

Well I've had the Jeep repaired and have been driving for about three weeks. They replaced the radiator, water pump, overflow tank, Oil cooler with the Dorman aluminium housing, and all coolant hoses. Total repair with extensive labor flushing to oil out of the system was $3,200. Runs great and oil remains steady at normal operating temp. HOWEVER, I too am seeing recurring oil sludge in the top of the overflow tank which I contiinue to clean out regularly. They told me they were unable to flush all of the oil out of the block and advised me to return for a radiator flush after running 200 miles. After extensive research on the interwebs I'm planning on flushing the system myself using low sudsing dishwater powder and water then disconnecting radiator and heater core hoses and flushing everything in both directions. I'll do as many iterations as I need to get all of the oil out ( guessing 3 or 4 times) I'm guessing this will take half a day or longer and I'm not confident the shop will be as diligent as I intend to be. I'll measure the flushing results by collecting and comparing water bottles of each flush cycle - should be interesting!

Nice job by the shop. Was it under warranty? On the ecodiesels, initial repairs under warranty when trucks were newer were very extensive and I think then the dealers were advised to do a half ass job replacing parts.

I would NOT put anything in the cooling system that's not specifically made for cooling systems. Especially not dishwashing something. Have you put aluminum in your dishwasher? The detergent heavily oxidize aluminum, not something I'd want to do to my internal parts, especially around heads and gaskets and such.

Small amounts of oil aren't really going to hurt anything, and I bet if you clean out the tank every 6 months it will get less and less. That was my plan, until I decided I wanted a new truck anyway. Haha. FYI, if you remove the tank, cleaning it with gasoline will do a great job.

Keep us posted on your adventures.

[mthomas58]

Originally Posted by aigel

Nice job by the shop. Was it under warranty? On the ecodiesels, initial repairs under warranty when trucks were newer were very extensive and I think then the dealers were advised to do a half ass job replacing parts.

I would NOT put anything in the cooling system that's not specifically made for cooling systems. Especially not dishwashing something. Have you put aluminum in your dishwasher? The detergent heavily oxidize aluminum, not something I'd want to do to my internal parts, especially around heads and gaskets and such.

Small amounts of oil aren't really going to hurt anything, and I bet if you clean out the tank every 6 months it will get less and less. That was my plan, until I decided I wanted a new truck anyway. Haha. FYI, if you remove the tank, cleaning it with gasoline will do a great job.

Keep us posted on your adventures.

Unfortunatley, its a 2014 and out of warranty. Good advise on the not using the dishwashing powder. Guess I shouldn't believe everything I read on YouTube. I'll stick with the Blue Devil Coolant Flush & Degreaser for ever how many flush cycles I need for things to run clear.

[mthomas58]

Flush operations completed and here are the results. First time flushing for me so I got better on each flush. I completed three total flush cycles two of which using Blue Devil Coolant Flush with Degreaser. From Left to right bottles are numbered 0 - 3.

0 is my starting point prior to flushing

1 is the result of the first flush using the Blue Devil Flush with degreaser however I flushed with the thermostat in place and drained only using the pet cock on the bottom of the radiator. I estimate only about half of the 10.5 qt capacity was removed.

2 is the result of the second flush after removing the thermostat and disconnecting all of the hoses and running the garden hose both ways on every hose and radiator

3 is the result of third and final flush using the degreaser thermostat removed and all hoses flushed and back flushed with the hose.

As a precaution, in the event I have any oil contamination coming from the head gasket, I am currently running a final cycle using Blue Devil Gasket Sealer and distilled water ( I found no negative comments about the product on line and nothing but positive on line reviews ) It supposedly works by getting into the head gasket causing it to swell and seal any leaks.

No final flush is required according to the directions. Just reinstall the thermostat, drain some of the water and fill with coolant. Fingers crossed. I'll post another pic with a bottle of the coolant after finalizing the procedure.

Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions!

[mthomas58]

Final pic of the flush process after completing the head gasket sealer procedure, reinstalling the thermostat and adding coolant.

[A930Rocket]

That’s a huge change in color. Hopefully, everything does the trick for you

[juanbenae]

I've read on many of the jeep sites there is a product that you can take a sample of coolant that will pick up trace amounts of oil in coolant. Prolly not worth doing now, but if you were to do it say in a week you could sample it again in a month to see if the amount of oil has increased per the test results.

[Arizona_928]

Looks like some sort of surfactant is the trick.


https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/575613-removing-oil-from-coolant-system.html

[mthomas58]

Drove the Jeep extensively today through multiple heat cycles. Absolutely no evidence of any oil contamination in the overflow tank. Although very early, I am very encouraged.

[mthomas58]

Still don't have the coolant system functioning properly. I've got some intermittent coolant temp spikes and no heat. Noticed some coolant/steam leaking from the new/aftermarket radiator cap so I replaced it with an OEM Mopar cap and the leak stopped. Thinking I might have some air trapped in the heater core I attemped burping the air out using the funnel radiator cap gizmo numerous times event jacking the front end up to but was not confident I got the air out. Still no heat so ordered a Snap on vacuum coolant filler kit. Drained and refilled under vacuum - still no heat. Thinking now I may have a bad thermostat (I'm sure the repair shop replaced with and aftermarket one) so I've ordered an OEM Mopar one. In the meantime, I've checked to make sure the three heater blend door actuators in the dash are working and they appear to all be functioning properly - (1) temp blend door (2) cabin recirc (3) vent controller.

I'm anxious to replace the thermostat to see if that solves the no heat issue. Needless to say, this is Very Frustrating!

[Scott Douglas]

Does the engine reach operating temp OK?

Almost sounds like you have a 'valve' in the line that lets hot water go to the heater core that isn't working correctly.

[john70t]

WAG here:
-Oil into the coolant would indicate that side had the most positive pressure.
The PVC or something else in the EVAP could stick shut, and then blow-by could pump the engine case up like a balloon. There are radiator pressure testers that find leaks.

-Scott may be on to something. The oil/coolant mechanism might be blocked. An infrared thermometer on the hoses before and after will indicate if there is flow.


Besides an intermittent FP relay and leaking sunroof and electrical problems, my '89 Golf also had an overheating problem:
-Jumpered the fan direct and it was good. Tried three different thermostats. They are located under the pump so bleeding was a problem. New thermo fan switch. New radiator. Tried bleeding it six different ways to sunday (squeezing the hoses while parked on steep hills, filling up each side separately, etc). I was still probably doing it wrong.

-Never did fix it. It was probably a blocked exhaust or an ECU preventing the fan running in retrospect. Something else. Timing was right. Had normal power when cool.

-I drove around with the A/C on high. The extra fan pulls more air through the radiator. Or full heat with all the windows down. Pulled over when it got to max. It lasted a few years that way. Terrible way to drive though.

-The heater core finally exploded inside the car right before the Bay Bridge. Air bubble or rusted out. I walked to a hardware store and looped those hoses back into the engine.
Interior heat is tangential to engine cooling.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

Does the engine reach operating temp OK?

Almost sounds like you have a 'valve' in the line that lets hot water go to the heater core that isn't working correctly.

This is where I would be looking. Laser heat thermometer, do some investigation.

It's also easy to test your thermostat.

Last, zero heat is a common result from 'head gasket fix in a can'. Heater core might be blocked/plugged. Is the hose to the heater core hot?