Any information about the Pacific Palisades Fire

[William930t]

On the smart irrigations systems we manage, which are linked to area weather stations, the wind threshold for cutting operation I set at 22 mph. With my experience, the water coming out of standard Rain Bird or Hunter 50PSI rated irrigation heads drifts way too much above 25mph. Even monster higher pressure golf course heads would likely be ineffective at watering a designated area fighting against Santa Ana winds.

[fintstone]

For most situations, all one really needs are some of the large, 360-degree golf course type sprinklers in each corner of their yard and a controller with a battery backup. One could even tie it into an existing system so there would be very limited plumbing. A low-cost solution would be to buy several of those type heads and tall risers where you could simply unscrew/pull a few existing sprinklers and screw them in if there was a fire nearby. Probably take 10 minutes. Of course this would not take the place of clearing scrub, etc., just supplement other actions.

One could assume that in most instances (at least in the future) that the local reservoir will not be drained for a year for minor repairs...but, you could monitor for that and add storage if necessary.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by porsche tech

/\ /\ /\. As stated in original post #261. Sounds like a worthwhile idea.

Certainly worth investigating.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

What happens when the city water pressure drops to nothing or just a trickle, as it did for the Fire Department. It would need a swimming pool and a battery operated pump to survive in the California wildfires.

I think a system similar to this could work.
The guy in the video had a big pump powered by a generator that supplied the sprinklers with water from a swimming pool. The sprinklers were on tripods, so the water started from 3 feet up. It wasn't clear what the sprinklers were aimed at. I think he also had sprinklers on his roof. He had some kind of fire retardant that he mixed into the water in his hot tub and then used a pump to spray it on one side of his house. He left the generators running the pump and the sprinklers on when he evacuated. Based on this level of preparation, I suspect he cleared brush from around his property, too.
The article was in the SF Chronicle and was fairly detailed regarding the precautions he took. I read the article on my news aggregator, so I can't link to it.

[rfuerst911sc]

How many homes lost would have survived with metal roofs and siding ? Generally the standard roof metal is 26 or 29 gauge , same for the siding . That's not super thick but at least it's not combustible . At some point it would probably melt with enough heat .

I know after the fires devastated Key West Florida it was mandatory to install metal roofs to meet updated building codes . In that fire it skipped from one roof to the next . I know it's not comparing apples to apples due to the high winds in CA. fires . Just thinking out loud of possible solutions . Maybe metal can be one part of the puzzle solution .

[javadog]

At my last house, I had 1/2 an acre with 50 trees, a few miles from the outskirt of town. Risk of loss from a wildfire was low but I still did many things to mitigate the risk. I re-roofed the house with fire retardant materials sourced from Washington state. They were not available in Oklahoma, so I bought them from the manufacturer and hired a semi- truck to haul them to Oklahoma. The yard was heavily landscaped with plants that were evergreen, so there was no "dry season" for any plant or grass on the property. The entire lot was sprinkled, year round. I had a 25,000 gallon pool and a 2" trash pump and enough 2" hose to go anywhere on the property. I also frequently rented larger gasoline powered pumps for my business and the rental yard was 1-1/2 miles away, in case one pump wasn't enough, or the power went out. The nearest fire hydrant was 25 feet from my property corner and the city water main line had a maintenance valve on my property for bleeding air out of the line, which I could, ahem, connect to in an emergency...

We also had mitigation steps taken inside the house for valuables and documents, etc.

I figured I was adequately covered.

[SpyderMike]

Cement tile roofs are very common in SoCal.


Personally, I don't think I would want to live in a neighborhood where my house survives and most others are lost. It is going to be a mess for years with debris removal, treatment and rebuilding going on daily. We had a large fire near us that wiped out a town about four years ago. It is mostly cleaned up and the reconstruction has started ... It will be years before it is anywhere near what it was like. I would vote to move on.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by SpyderMike

Cement tile roofs are very common in SoCal.


Personally, I don't think I would want to live in a neighborhood where my house survives and most others are lost. It is going to be a mess for years with debris removal, treatment and rebuilding going on daily. We had a large fire near us that wiped out a town about four years ago. It is mostly cleaned up and the reconstruction has started ... It will be years before it is anywhere near what it was like. I would vote to move on.

This. And you likely will have no utilities for a long while. Still, it is better than having your house burn down, along with all your possessions. Just replacing all your shoes clothes would be expensive.

[gregpark]

The gigantic Palisades fire is nowhere near contained and Tuesday night the super strong winds are returning. Why all the talk about rebuilding, insurance BS, the finger pointing, etc?
This thing is only half over, shouldn't the concentration be on the task at hand? I can't watch the news without getting pissed off

[SpyderMike]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Still, it is better than having your house burn down, along with all your possessions. Just replacing all your shoes clothes would be expensive.

Not for me...it's just stuff. Do your best to prepare financially in advance...

[SpyderMike]

Originally Posted by gregpark

The gigantic Palisades fire is nowhere near contained and Tuesday night the super strong winds are returning. Why all the talk about rebuilding, insurance BS, the finger pointing, etc?
This thing is only half over, shouldn't the concentration be on the task at hand? I can't watch the news without getting pissed off

Agreed. Way to early to be criticizing folks actively working the issue. Especially when the critics have only the Internet as a source of (mis)information. People with the "coulda, woulda, shoulda" mentality are no help to the situation.

[kevin993]

Logistics predictions (trying to stay out of the politics):

1) The surge of demand for housing will boost home prices in nearby neighborhoods. People who need homes are going to buy or rent in places near to where they were. Some will leave the area altogether (especially those who were considering leaving CA already).

2) The clean up process will take MUCH longer than home owners expect. Approvals, permits, and assessments from public sector and insurance companies. What is required? From whom? In what sequence? What is dependent on what? Most homeowners will have zero experience and struggle to learn on the fly. It will take a LONG time before anyone pivots from clean-up to rebuilding.

3) Demand for contractors of all types will increase. Supply will emerge but contractors will have more work than they can handle. Some will be licensed. Others will not. Frustrated homeowners will struggle to get appointments, get on a list, get attention, and get work done.

4) Insurance will not be sufficient to pay for temporary housing and rebuilding costs in many cases.

5) Government agencies and staff is not equipped for anything of this scale. They are not accustomed to the volume or the need to be nimble. There will be bottlenecks an delays.

6) Some people will try to "buy" their way to getting things done faster. In some cases, that will work. In others, it won't. At a minimum, it could be a factor that drives up costs and graft.

7) There are going to be lots of pain points on utilities, property taxes, etc. A homeowner with a pile of ash is not going to be thrilled about writing a $30k property tax check or paying a water bill based on broken valves.

8) Urban planners will want to re-imagine the burned areas and re-zone or re-plan them from a clean sheet of paper. Agree or disagree, different visions will delay rebuilding pace. At a minimum, new builds will cost more because of building codes and heightened sensitivity to fire risk.

9) Pacific Palisades and Altadena are two very different areas of LA. Different demographics, topography, etc. There will be differences in handling, treatment, pace, etc. Comparisons will be inevitable.

10) CA fire/natural disaster insurance is going to be bumpy and take time. Increased premiums, changes to coverage, govt role/backstop, etc. At present, premiums can't adequately reflect risk.


Terrible in all respects. Best wishes to all impacted.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by kevin993

2) The clean up process will take MUCH longer than home owners expect. Approvals, permits, and assessments from public sector and insurance companies. What is required? From whom? In what sequence? What is dependent on what? Most homeowners will have zero experience and struggle to learn on the fly. It will take a LONG time before anyone pivots from clean-up to rebuilding.

3) Demand for contractors of all types will increase. Supply will emerge but contractors will have more work than they can handle. Some will be licensed. Others will not. Frustrated homeowners will struggle to get appointments, get on a list, get attention, and get work done.

After the Northridge quake I was living in Fillmore. An old agricultural town of 12k people, no buildings above 2 stories and $250 million in damage.

Roll offs were placed around town and people were doing their own clean up, lots of debris. I had knocked down my chimney and garage, the house was built in 1929 so had a bit of damage. A guy pulled up and asked if I needed a hand, nice enough guy wearing a baseball cap with some fishing logo. We unloaded, talked about fishing and he mentioned he was a contractor.

I still remember his name, Doug Mathwin. He gave me his card and we went our separate ways. When it came time to rebuild the garage I called him. He gave me a price of $20k for a bare bones garage. Woah. By this time any other decent contractor was busy and no time to bid projects.

I had done construction and figured I could build a nice garage myself for around $5k.

Turns out this guy took people in the town for around $200-250k with uncompleted construction all over town. A real POS. Dodged a bullet with that one. These people prey on others misfortune, take their money from SBA loans (FEMA) and don't even bat an eye.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by kevin993

Logistics predictions (trying to stay out of the politics):

Terrible in all respects. Best wishes to all impacted.

Well done and thank you.

Best.

[kevin993]

There will also be a major impact on gardeners, maids, nannies, etc. who worked in these neighborhoods. Don't have a prediction for what that impact looks like, but there will be an impact.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by kevin993

Logistics predictions (trying to stay out of the politics):

1) The surge of demand for housing will boost home prices in nearby neighborhoods. People who need homes are going to buy or rent in places near to where they were. Some will leave the area altogether (especially those who were considering leaving CA already).

2) The clean up process will take MUCH longer than home owners expect. Approvals, permits, and assessments from public sector and insurance companies. What is required? From whom? In what sequence? What is dependent on what? Most homeowners will have zero experience and struggle to learn on the fly. It will take a LONG time before anyone pivots from clean-up to rebuilding.

3) Demand for contractors of all types will increase. Supply will emerge but contractors will have more work than they can handle. Some will be licensed. Others will not. Frustrated homeowners will struggle to get appointments, get on a list, get attention, and get work done.

4) Insurance will not be sufficient to pay for temporary housing and rebuilding costs in many cases.

5) Government agencies and staff is not equipped for anything of this scale. They are not accustomed to the volume or the need to be nimble. There will be bottlenecks an delays.

6) Some people will try to "buy" their way to getting things done faster. In some cases, that will work. In others, it won't. At a minimum, it could be a factor that drives up costs and graft.

7) There are going to be lots of pain points on utilities, property taxes, etc. A homeowner with a pile of ash is not going to be thrilled about writing a $30k property tax check or paying a water bill based on broken valves.

8) Urban planners will want to re-imagine the burned areas and re-zone or re-plan them from a clean sheet of paper. Agree or disagree, different visions will delay rebuilding pace. At a minimum, new builds will cost more because of building codes and heightened sensitivity to fire risk.

9) Pacific Palisades and Altadena are two very different areas of LA. Different demographics, topography, etc. There will be differences in handling, treatment, pace, etc. Comparisons will be inevitable.

10) CA fire/natural disaster insurance is going to be bumpy and take time. Increased premiums, changes to coverage, govt role/backstop, etc. At present, premiums can't adequately reflect risk.


Terrible in all respects. Best wishes to all impacted.

#8 will be interesting. Will the government take advantage of this disaster to either rezone or make rebuilding difficult or cost prohibitive? Will someone like Blackrock swoop in to purchase the “unusable” lots to create high density luxury housing, likely marketed as being “fire resistant”? This seems to be the script in Hawaii so it’s a definite concern. Many of the families impacted will likely be upside down and desperate to get a new home and move on with life, and not up to a protracted legal battle.

[Sooner or later]

Blackstone
Blackrock

There is a difference.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Blackstone
Blackrock

There is a difference.

I know, my father in law likes cooking burgers on his Blackstone. Personally I prefer a conventional grill. Neither one is much on real estate development.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Too bad it was not contained before it was a raging inferno. Pretty much all fires start out small.

[techweenie]

Looking over the aftermath of any urban fire, you find random buildings escaping destruction.

Here's a photo from 2 days ago of Pacific Palisades. These 2 houses and a third outside the edge of the image all survived. All 3 were fully evacuated.



Sorry for the low quality. Helicopter shot from broadcast TV.