No Tip

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by craigster59

Venmo, Zelle and Square are becoming the norm. It's to the point that if you don't have a credit or debit card you have no reason to eat out.

Vic and I were at a restaurant last month that has never accepted credit cards. "Cash or good check only."

[craigster59]

Let me rephrase that. "It's to the point that if you don't have a credit or debit card you have no reason to travel".

[The Synergizer]

Wow, it's been a while since I lived in Denver and was in the hotel business - Tech Center (the 1980's) but servers used to get $2.10 per hour plus tips.

[Zeke]

Years ago when Grady Clay was visiting I was his main ride for 5 days all day long every day. One event was a meetup with Pelicans at restaurant near Pelican that had more than a dozen, maybe 15 or close. Wayne sat at the head of the table, perhaps a mistake. I don't know how the sitation arrose that Wayne paid the bill, but he did with the understanding that everyone pass down the table enough money to cover the bill.

Usually when this happens the person paying has plenty to pay and leave a tip. Wayne got shorted, that I know. I think the more involved the more inaccurate it can become. I'm not sure he mentioned it then and there, but it did come out soon enough that I was scanning the seating arrangement and going over in my mind how the cash flowed towards the head of the table. I had my suspicions of who feigned adding to the pile as it progressed.

When in a group like this it is difficult for each person to count up their own bill. Easy to forget the second bar beverage ordered, maybe a side. The the cost of the main course is what you tend to remember. With tip and taxes it's probably wise to add 50% to the price of the meal as your part. At best, it's a lot of rounding off in everyone's mind. Some are generous because they know. Those that try and hit their share on the nose probably come up short.

Had we tried to have separate bills, including additional beverages and perhaps a desert or two, it would have been very difficult for the server. Damn near impossible unless they tacked your bill on the back of your seat and added to as the evening wore on. As it is, the servers seldom anymore bring the food to the table w/o asking where this dish goes and who had that one. Or they use runners to get all the food on the table in a timely manner.

AFA sounding on the server, owner or not, that was likely boorish. WRT to not tipping the owner, that may be the case at a barber shop and other places where an owner is also the front man acting alone. When it comes to a business where tips are shared with the backend workers, how is an owner supposed to pull out tips for busing, cooking and washing? That's stupid. Tip the server even if it's God.

We had another restaurant get together a couple days later for lunch. Again Wayne was there. I think he arranged this one while I had put together the dinner. Much smaller group and IIRC, it came out fine. Probably separate checks. Someone always bought Grady's share.

And the more I think about this Grady trip, we had dinner out every night. I remember one place where it was Grady, myself and my wife only. Another night we ended up in Pasadena and one by one everyone left leaving the two of us. We had been there to see Grady's grandfather's stately home. Grady was ill and under treatment. He was not supposed to drink any alcohol. He managed to keep his consumption to a minimum but that night in Pasadena I think he might have gotten to a 4th glass of wine over a long 2 hours at least. The guy had great stories.

And there I sat, drinking coffee.

[Jeff Higgins]

Just to clarify a few things that have been mentioned in a few of your replies:

As mentioned, the guy waiting on us had one of those little hand held devices into which he was placing our orders. It was equipped with a credit card reader, as is every one of those I have ever seen.

It's been my experience, when presented with one of those, that there is apparently no extra work whatsoever for the waiter to split the check. Also in my experience, when the waiter is using one of those, the new "default", at least when dealing with groups who are obviously not family or something, is to assume we will want separate checks. As a result, I think we have gotten a bit lazy or inattentive about asking for them up front. It's just assumed, since it is so easy, that that will be the case. Maybe we shouldn't make that assumption. It certainly wasn't a valid assumption in this case.

Our guy was not rude in the least. Maybe a little louder than necessary, but he was very polite. And assertive... But certainly not rude.

The waiter was by no means swamped, or really even all that busy. The place was maybe 20% full, and he was not the only one waiting tables. And, well, at the end of the day, that hand held device would be doing all of the work for him. It's not like the days before we had such things, where he would have had to sit down and break it all out manually.

I would have handled it completely differently. No tip, for sure, but it would have been a private conversation. I would not simply leave no tip with no explanation, and I would not write comments on the receipt or something. I would feel as if I owned him an explanation, face to face, but privately. Help him improve.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

-snip-I would feel as if I owned him an explanation, face to face, but privately. Help him improve.

Assuming this wasn't accomplished....any interest in contacting him now to do this, after the fact?

Or is it water under the bridge at this point?

Milt - really enjoyed your Grady Clay/Wayne post!

[masraum]

It sounds like you had a great meal and service right up until the request to separate the check.

There are a lot of places that will not separate checks for parties over a certain size (often 6 or 8 people).

Announcing no tip after a good meal with good service due to a lack of splitting the check would make me very uncomfortable. My wife and I were asked out to dinner by her mother and her mother's significant other. The meal was probably a few hundred dollars. The mother and her guy drank and he especially got really obnoxious with the server (who was great), and then tipped $20. My wife and I were appalled. When we all left I made an excuse to go back inside and gave the guy all of the cash that I had in my wallet (wasn't a ton, but made the tip much better) and apologized.

Seems to me that rather than withholding tip for services already rendered at an acceptable level it would have been better to talk to the manager about the check splitting.

[JavaBrewer]

Upfront, the wife and I worked service industry while in high school and college. So I am biased.

For me to not tip it would have to be something really wrong. If I hated the experience I would leave 10% and never return. That tip gets partially dispersed to all the supporting staff. Tipping at restaurants has been part of industry for a long long time. I was a bartender at one of the top restaurants in La Jolla for a bit longer that I care to divulge starting in the early 90's. My hourly wage was around $2 and meant nothing to me because tips were the income.

Sorry if I missed it Jeff but folks normally ask for separate checks while ordering food. And lastly the wife and I have experience with friends who think 5% for great service is good. Even though we have separate checks I say I will meet everyone in the parking lot and hand over cash to the waiter to make up the cheap tendencies of folks we are dining with.

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by masraum

It sounds like you had a great meal and service right up until the request to separate the check.

There are a lot of places that will not separate checks for parties over a certain size (often 6 or 8 people).

Announcing no tip after a good meal with good service due to a lack of splitting the check would make me very uncomfortable. My wife and I were asked out to dinner by her mother and her mother's significant other. The meal was probably a few hundred dollars. The mother and her guy drank and he especially got really obnoxious with the server (who was great), and then tipped $20. My wife and I were appalled. When we all left I made an excuse to go back inside and gave the guy all of the cash that I had in my wallet (wasn't a ton, but made the tip much better) and apologized.

Seems to me that rather than withholding tip for services already rendered at an acceptable level it would have been better to talk to the manager about the check splitting.

Yep. Any time there's a big group you talk about who's paying and how, up front, and confirm if the check can be split. Maybe a mistake on the new business' part of not clarifying that up front, but no reason to dock them the pay.

In general tipping is stupid anyway, but it is what it is and, until the culture shifts or a restaurant forbids it, not tipping is just a dick move.

I think I've skipped a tip twice, and only because the server was explicitly rude with someone at the table.

[Zeke]

@Jeff Higgins, RE: post 25, works for me, and "Maybe we shouldn't make that assumption. It certainly wasn't a valid assumption in this case" does seem correct. I've never been anywhere that I would make that assumption. I'm sure it takes a moment for a server to read the table, meanwhile get crackin' on the drink orders. Could have been boss and crew, could be anything.

It's on the guests to state what they want. The problem lies where the establishment says no to separate checks. Splitting it 3-ways seems arbitrary.

Supertramp — "Some they do, some they don't, some you just can't tell."

[wdfifteen]

On the subject of customer service, I had a good experience today.
I went to the Casey's gas/convenience store to get some NoEth gas for my Volt. I couldn't find the pump, and I saw a guy there washing the pumps. I asked him if they still had it. I expected the usual shrug of the shoulders and a mumble of something. But he said, "I don't know, but I'll run in and ask my manager."
He literally RAN into the store. I was so impressed with his hustle that I went in, found the manager, and told her, "You've got a real winner here!" The kid was beaming, some other employees heard me, and they were beaming too. Everybody in the place seemed to be proud to work there.

[craigster59]

The other factor that comes up, although I don't think it applies here, is that some places automatically apply an 18-20% gratuity to the bill on parties of 6 or more. Splitting the bill circumvents this practice.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by craigster59

The other factor that comes up, although I don't think it applies here, is that some places automatically apply an 18-20% gratuity to the bill on parties of 6 or more. Splitting the bill circumvents this practice.

When I was a server at Uno's, we had an ink stamp that read, "18% gratuity added" which we were supposed to use on checks for large parties. Somehow that ink stamp got really faded and was hard to see in the low light there and often times those parties would still add another 20%. I don't know how that happened.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by billybek

Being a new establishment, the partner may not have had the ability or knowledge of the system to split the bill after the fact.
I think that in the future, the group should ask for separate bills when seated.

This.

If asked up front and refused - no tip. Actually I'd be out the door before they poured the water.

If asked to split 10 people at the end - yeah that's a bit much. Tip for the service and don't refuse for the oversight.

Although I personally hate multiple checks.
I try to avoid being in that situation in the first place.

[Por_sha911]

I can't accept that they can't split a check (even after the fact). The server was either lazy or untrained and I would have asked to speak to someone higher up.

Poor service justifies low or no tip but, without an explanation the server will assume you are a jerk or forgot. Asking to speak to the manager and privately expressing your assessment of the service would have been much better. As far as the tip is concerned, I will leave 5 or 10% with a note why it was low (0 only when something especially egregious has taken place and a note and a conversation with the manager). I've probably left no tip at a full service restaurant 2 times in the last 40 years. I have left 10% with a note and a conversation with the manager (not frequently but on a number of occasions). I don't tip when they took my money and handed me a bag.

I don't accept "but they rely on tips to make decent money". Should a salesman get a commission if they did a garbage presentation and didn't get the contract? If you can't give good service then maybe you need to do something else. If nothing else, say "I'm sorry I didn't do X but..."

[onewhippedpuppy]

If I’m eating out with friends and family (not work) in a group, it’s pretty common that one of us will pick up the tab and then just split it equally between the group. I don’t like hanging out with people petty enough to squabble about +/- a few dollars.

[Baz]

I waited tables part time in my 20's when teaching at the local Jr College. I also pumped gas on weekends at the Amoco here on the barrier island.

And worked for tips as a part time pizza/sub delivery person while in college.

I bet everyone here has had the same kinds of jobs during their career path so we fully understand the concept of tipping and how it fits into things.

I accepted the fact long ago there there's always going to be a variation in how the public approaches their role in it all. Seems like it all evens out in the end.

I have some funny stories I could share. I bet others here do too. Fun to look back on sometimes....part of life's lessons.......

[Alan A]

Is it too late to suggest only going out to eat with people that pick up the entire tab?

Asian friend of mine has this habit.
We have to give a card to the waiter before we sit down - let alone start ordering - to circumvent it, and he’s gotten into the habit of prepaying when he books to get ahead.

Which is why we don’t let him pick places…

All joking aside - that’s far less stressful than this whole separate check deal.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Baz I’m probably sympathetic for that reason, my college roommates were a bartender and a cook. So I probably tend to over-tip rather than under-tip.

[gsxrken]

Setting aside the debate for a moment, I bet he will split checks for the rest of his career.