Kerry caught lying again!

[Mulholland]

Of course, JFKerry was wrong in supporting the Sandinistas, Reagan was right. The brutal Ortega dictatorship was forced out of power and democracy has flourished; no thanks to JFKerry.

[CamB]

Originally posted by Mulholland
Of course, JFKerry was wrong in supporting the Sandinistas, Reagan was right. The brutal Ortega dictatorship was forced out of power and democracy has flourished; no thanks to JFKerry.

That's a fairly rosy tinted view. Both the Senate and the World Court (not that you guys care about the latter ) agreed with Kerry that it was a bad idea. The Contras apparently didn't really force the Sandinistas out either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boland_Amendment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair

Quote from the first link:

Mediation by other Central American governments under Costa Rican leadership led finally to the Sapoa ceasefire agreement of March 23, 1988, which with additional agreements (February, August 1989) provided for the Contras' disarmament and re-integration into Nicaraguan society and politics, and internationally-monitored elections which were subsequently won (February 25, 1990) by an anti-Sandinista centre-right coalition.

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by CamB
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra

Quote from the first link:

"In 1979 the Sandinistas launched an offensive from Costa Rica and Honduras that toppled Somoza. They established a junta that nationalized such industries as banking and mining, postponed elections, and moved steadily to the left, eventually espousing Marxist-Leninist positions."
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/S/Sandinist.asp

Goldwater said, of Kerry's involvement supporting the Marxist's who were supported by the Soviets and Cubans...

Kerry and Harkin, "negotiated over there ... and now they're trying to force the president of the United States to negotiate with the president of Nicaragua. I honestly think two members of our body are violating the [federal] code when they undertake to negotiate" and are "usurping a section of the Constitution" giving only the president the right to negotiate with foreign leaders, Goldwater said. "To transgress against the Constitution is wrong, wrong, wrong."

Kerry's response?

I am "a veteran of Vietnam who fought and was wounded in that conflict."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38529

[djmcmath]

Mull, where do you come up with this material? I mean, a cut-and-paste from the Congressional Record is one thing, but posting scanned images from the actual record? That's incredible.

I agree with many of your points, frighteningly enough, but would note that you have the tact of a freight train. Perhaps if you made your points less abrasively, people would be more open to the facts that you present? It's just that you go to so much effort to produce these fantastic bits of evidence, and you obviously have a well-researched position -- but you come across with all the tact of a charging bull moose, so people reject you out of hand. Just a thought.

Dan

[ubiquity0]

Originally posted by djmcmath
Mull, where do you come up with this material? I mean, a cut-and-paste from the Congressional Record is one thing, but posting scanned images from the actual record? That's incredible.

He stuffed the pages into his pants to carry them out. They are only duplicates though

[island911]

Originally posted by djmcmath
. . .I agree with many of your points, frighteningly enough, but would note that you have the tact of a freight train. . ..

One of Muls early post; "say uncle, SAY UNCLE!"

When I read what Mul writes here, it always has that tone to it. . . .kind of a hyper-razz factor. I find it rather entertaining.
. . .but then, I like good banter.

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by kach22i
read the story behind the picture, or do you condone the selling of cocaine for arms?

"The DEA and Justice Department had dismissed the claims of one of Kerry's star witnesses, accused cocaine trafficker Jorge Morales, that the CIA and Nicaraguan resistance forces were involved in large-scale drug trafficking -- an allegation that Kerry used in a widely publicized staff report.

Morales himself offered to recant what he told Kerry and say he fabricated much of his story. As part of his plea bargain, Morales was free to testify to Kerry's investigators, but the plea bargain also stated that he would be further penalized if he gave any false, misleading or incomplete information. Morales never testified to Kerry.

The senator had no sooner lost one of his star witnesses than the Washington Times revealed that Kerry had concealed evidence of Sandinista drug trafficking and had deleted information from his staff report of the previous October to pin the blame on the Sandinistas' U.S.-backed opponents. As with several news stories that discredited Kerry's investigations, the senator refused to speak to journalists seeking to question him.

"Law-enforcement officials and congressional sources said the witness incident was typical of interference in Justice Department investigations by Kerry staff," the Times reported."

WND

Before you dismiss WND, look not only at the leaning of the publication, but the undisputed facts backing up the article.

JFKerry was working full-time for the communists, and at the same time against the sitting President and the United States...I am not saying that the Contras were not selling drugs, but there is significantly more credibility to the charge that the Sandinistas were and Kerry was covering up that inconvenient truth.

[CamB]

Originally posted by djmcmath
Mull, where do you come up with this material? I mean, a cut-and-paste from the Congressional Record is one thing, but posting scanned images from the actual record? That's incredible.

www.instapundit.com in that case (or a bunch of other blogs)
also:

www.drudgereport.com is always a good start

You can pick pretty much any one of the plethora of Kerry-hating blogs out there (all of which link to each other in the orgy of wank that is the blogsphere). Any new information is referenced and cross reference quickly.

Failing that, I suspect google (my weapon of choice, haha) .

Mull:

JFKerry was working full-time for the communists

I can't believe you write stuff like that so casually. For instance, I bothered to read all the picture of the congressional record (above) - it makes it clear he wants the US to back off Nicaragua. This is not "working for the communists" this is looking for the US to leave other countries be.

Although it is different for you, history does not look back on the US involvement in Nicaragua in a positive light.

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by CamB
Mull:

I can't believe you write stuff like that so casually. For instance, I bothered to read all the picture of the congressional record (above) - it makes it clear he wants the US to back off Nicaragua. This is not "working for the communists" this is looking for the US to leave other countries be.

Although it is different for you, history does not look back on the US involvement in Nicaragua in a positive light.

"According to the Nicaraguan Commission of Jurists, the Sandinistas carried out over 8,000 political executions within three years of the revolution. The number of "anti-revolutionary" Nicaraguans who had "disappeared" in Sanadinista hands or had died "trying to escape" were numbered in the thousands. By 1983, the number of political prisoners in the Sandinistas' ruthless tyranny were estimated at 20,000. Torture was institutionalized."

Did you know this Cam?

David Horowitz (ex-communist)

John Kerry never met a brutal communist dictatorship he didn't support, either wittingly or unwittingly.

[Mulholland]

The indictment of the Reagan Administration read, "In or before the middle of 1985, the defendents Oliver L. North, Richard V. Secord and Albert Hakim and others commenced an enterprise that was intended, among other things, to support military and paramilitary operations in Nicaragua by the Contras and to conduct covert action operations."

The Boland Amendment was a joke, manufactured to stop Reagan from supporting the Contra freedom fighters. For all intents and purposes the Democrat party aided and abetted a Soviet backed Marxist-Leninist (read pattern murderers) tyranny.

When Harkin and Kerry illegally went to Nicaragua, unofficially negotiating with foreign leaders, they said that Ortega was, "a misunderstood democrat rather than a Marxist autocrat."

[dd74]

I hate to break this to you, Mul, but when you bring up Nicaragua, people (who care to remember it) are more apt to think about Iran-Contra, Reagan and North more than Sandinistan atrocities. Those are America's tangibles in the conflict - not whether Kerry did or did not support Daniel Ortega, et al and his followers.

It's as if someone brought up "Watergate," hoping people think of it as an up scale hotel instead of a ground zero for one of the worst political scandals in our country's history.

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by dd74
I hate to break this to you, Mul, but when you bring up Nicaragua, people (who care to remember it) are more apt to think about Iran-Contra, Reagan and North more than Sandinistan atrocities. Those are America's tangibles in the conflict - not whether Kerry did or did not support Daniel Ortega, et al and his followers.

It's as if someone brought up "Watergate," hoping people think of it as an up scale hotel instead of a ground zero for one of the worst political scandals in our country's history.

People have been misled to believe many things brother...Reagan freed hostages and ended the Cold War...It appears all but the left-wing press and their Kool-Aid drinking constituency revere Reagan.

Nixon's covered up a crime, a nickle-and-dime crime, and the press has been beating that drum ever since then...Why?...Because Nixon outed the communist sympathizers and the media sounding board for them...For this they will never forgive Nixon, and turned their backs on the Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians when the communists violated the Paris Peace Accords...We are all aware of the genocide, boat people and tyranny that have plagued Indochina since.

Bill Clinton had 900 FBI files on his political enemies...This crime alone surpasses Nixon covering up Watergate...Sorta like if you put a megaphone (representative of the press) in front of a mouse, the mouse sounds like a lion...You muzzle the lion and he cannot even squeak like a mouse.

Fear not friend, things have changed since the 80s...There was no FoxNews, the Internet was still just a glimmer in America's eyes...The stranglehold the socialists have had on media is a thing of the past...From Joe McCarthy, to Nixon, to Reagan, the truth will seek its level and the lies will be exposed.

[techweenie]

Apparently, the Contras are viewed by the short-term memory crowd as the 'good guys.'

A little reading might be in order.

------------------------
Published on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 in Newsday

How the 'Ethical' Administration Lies About Contra War

by Marie Cocco



JOSEPH Towle recites the death toll from memory.

In El Salvador, 60,000 or 70,000. In Guatemala, 200,000. "Some of them, my parishioners," the priest said.

And of course, some 40,000 to 50,000 in Nicaragua, the epicenter.

Towle spent a quarter-century as a missionary in Latin America, some of it during the time when the United States closed its eyes to the murders of nuns and priests and even bishops, and the rivers ran with blood. It was the policy of the United States in the 1980s to support any government that lined up against Communists and leftists of all stripes, even if those governments were profoundly murderous. And especially if they helped the United States stage its secret wars and sundry anti-Communist plots.

This they obligingly did, in return for the usual emoluments: dollars and benign blindness toward such unpleasantness as mass graves and murdered clergy.

Towle is not obviously angry when he recalls this time. He has the gentle way of a religious man.

He seems, more than anything, baffled by President George W. Bush's decision to resurrect these ghosts by nominating to positions of rank and prestige - and, yes, high honor - people who helped perpetrate the bloody deceit.

"I don't think they have much imagination," said Towle of the current president and his men.

Democrats on Capitol Hill relish hearings on the nominations of Otto Reich, nominated to be assistant secretary of state for the Western Hemisphere, and John Negroponte to be United Nations ambassador. Each was present at the creation - that is, they were posted in key diplomatic jobs and participated, more or less, in that breathtakingly corrupt enterprise that was the U.S.-backed war against Nicaragua's leftist government. The bill of particulars reads like a Graham Greene novel. The Democrats will doubtless serialize it.

More revealing, though, is the appointment of a man who will not be required to raise his right hand and swear to tell the truth for the cameras.

Elliott Abrams, who was Oliver North's colleague and co-conspirator in the the Reagan administration's illegal contra war, is back at the White House.

He works at the National Security Council, where his job is to promote democracy and human rights worldwide. The appointment was made with a straight face.

The post does not require Senate approval. All it takes is a president willing to appoint a convicted criminal and unrepentant liar to high public office.

The point is to perpetuate the myth that the whole Iran-contra scandal was not scandalous at all but merely a partisan skirmish at the twilight of the Cold War in which the forces of virtue - that is, the Reaganites - stood against the nettlesome nagging of lefty Democrats.

In fact, the contra effort entangled the U.S. government with international gun-runners, drug traffickers and money launderers. It involved illegal activity on three continents. Abrams helped secretly raise money from rich and friendly foreigners. He was a key figure in the cover-up, lying repeatedly to Congress.

He eventually satisfied felony charges with pleas to two misdemeanors and was pardoned by the first President Bush just before he left office.

There are pardons, and there are pardons. The president this latest Bush replaced is still under investigation even for pardons he refused to grant.

But the new president Bush is busy restoring honor and dignity to the White House. The Restoration Administration has as its ethical premise that anything done by the good men and women who it knows to be good men and women (that is, loyal to the Bush family) obviously have unquestionable credentials and unassailable virtue.

"The best person for the job," is how several Bush spokesmen described the president's reason for restoring Abrams.

In truth, the return of the rogues is a sharp stick in the eye of everyone - political opponents, foreign diplomats, scholars, even nuns and priests - who saw the Central America of the 1980s and discerned neither moral triumph nor political success. It is an attempt to rewrite history. Like all such conceits, it eventually will fail.

---------------------

But Joseph Towle was there, and like Scott Ritter, David Kay and many others, is about to be discredited by someone who wasn't there -- in five, four, three, two...

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by techweenie
"But Joseph Towle was there, and like Scott Ritter, David Kay and many others, is about to be discredited by someone who wasn't there -- in five, four, three, two...

"To stand there at attention . . . hearing the Star Spangled Banner," said Powell, triggered a flashback to 1987, "when I was . . . going up to Capitol Hill every three months . . . and fighting all night long with opponents of Contra aid, to keep these guys alive and going with food and ammunition." Reagan had called the Contras "the moral equivalent of our Founding Fathers and the brave men and women of the French Resistance" in World War II -- analogies that infuriated liberal Democrats.

But Reagan's comparisons were apt. After seizing power in 1979, the Sandinistas had quickly moved to take over Nicaragua's radio and TV stations and to impose strict censorship on La Prensa, the leading newspaper. It arrested independent labor leaders. It vilified the Catholic Church, persecuted the small Jewish community, and treated evangelical Protestants with particular viciousness. It expelled thousands of Miskito Indians from their homes, forcibly relocating them to government camps. With Cuban and Soviet aid, it launched a massive military buildup."
Boston Globe (Jeff Jacoby)

Here is a picture that translates to "Ronald Reagan , the Nicaraguan Resistence Movement thanks you and will always remember you."...This display honors Reagan, as he is deemed a hero for freedom in Nicaragua.



Here is a picture memorializing Reagan from Catedral Metropolitana in Managua.



To believe the intellectual diarrhea the DemocRATs put out regarding the Sandinistas, one would have to assume that tyranny and oppression would have surely resulted from Reagan supporting the evil Contras. One would also have to assume that the ultra-left wing guerillas, of the Marxist-Leninist sect, have forsaken their historical philosophical penchant for murder and oppression, and taken up kindness and equitable mercy...Neither is true.

The fiction that the Sandinistas were some noble and righteous cause, and Reagan was supporting murderers, is just that, a fiction. An evil intentionally deceptive fiction.

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by techweenie
"I don't think they have much imagination," said Towle of the current president and his men.

That is something I wouldn't accuse the good pro-communist catholic priest of.

Another symptom of the misguided path catholics walk, their denial of reality and support of communism...Never mind the 100,000,000 people killed by communism, "it just hasn't been done right yet."

[fintstone]

What a irony...those seeking freedom and democracy....honored the Gipper...much the same as the Communist North Vietnamese honor Kerry in their museum for supression of the same. Guess which is the icon for which party?

[MAS]

I don't think Kerry is any great shakes... but Bush is easily the worst US president I've ever seen. He makes me long for the Nixon years... and that's saying a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Bush because he is a conservative. That's my main problem with him... he's about as far from being a conservative as possible. Bush and his ilk are the worst thing that has ever happened to the GOP. And the DEMS have not been much better, since much of the time they've done their best to be "GOP-lite" instead of a true opposition party.

If the DEMS stopped attacking Bush and the GOP stopped attacking Kerry on "who said what and where were they 30 years ago"... and STUCK TO THE ISSUES... then we'd all be ahead of the game. Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen.


-MAS

[MAS]

"Fear not friend, things have changed since the 80s...There was no FoxNews, the Internet was still just a glimmer in America's eyes...The stranglehold the socialists have had on media is a thing of the past...From Joe McCarthy, to Nixon, to Reagan, the truth will seek its level and the lies will be exposed."

Good lord! You're serious right? Fox News? Fox News?

-MAS

[Mule]

As usual, anytime someone points out Kerry's lies the discussion goes to "you too." Can somebody at least do a little bit of defending before reflexively going into this you too mode?

[MAS]

Originally posted by Mule
As usual, anytime someone points out Kerry's lies the discussion goes to "you too." Can somebody at least do a little bit of defending before reflexively going into this you too mode?

What a loaded statement! It's kinda like asking someone when they stopped beating their wife.

-MAS