Pistol Caliber Recommendations

[Shuie]

Originally posted by HardDrive
Shuie, can you elaborate on this?

Im not a guru with this stuff or anything but I'll try.

when we are talking about guns, to me the term 'gas operated' means that only gas from the discharged cartridge is used to do the work of cycling the action.

Handguns like the Walther PPK and Sig P232 have a fixed barrel and use only the recoil from the cartridge to work the action. I dont know what the technical term is but I say they are blowback operated. .380 is about the limit for this in a handgun. Anything else batters the hell out of the gun. If youve ever shot a Walther PPK chambered in .380 ACP or even in .32 ACP you know its not the most comfortable gun to bring to the range. Neat guns, but way too much recoil for less than 200 ft lbs of stopping power, IMHO.

The H&K P7 guns are way different than the USP line. They have a fixed barrel like the PPK are chambered mostly in 9mm (there were a handful in 10mm and .40, IIRC). The gas tube in a P7 is used to retard the recoil that would otherwise batter the hell out of the gun. The recoil of a P7M8 will still catch you off guard if you are not used to shooting anything hotter than a 9mm. Its snappy for a heavy 9mm.

With the Browning design, the barrel is not fixed to the frame. The breach of the gun is effectively locked while the gun is in battery by a set of lugs on the barrel that fit a matching set of grooves in the slide. As the round is fired the energy from recoil takes the gun out of battery by tilting the barrel back so the barrel lugs 'unlock' from the slide' and the action can be cycled.





Gunsmiths, forgive me, and please correct me if what I typed about the Browning design is inaccurate. Its simple genious when you see it animated, but its not easy for a dummy like me to articulate the genious of Jonathan Browning.

As far as stopping power goes, if you are comfortable with a 9mm and are worried about the stopping power of the cartridge, then shoot twice Kinda doubles the 'stopping power'

[Rick V]

I get my info from the testing done by our local police dept. who carries this round in .40cal. The little stud helps to transfer energy into the front of the slug. If you have noticed the half jackets on these rounds are cut very deeply to help them detach in little pieces. Just ask any ER doc. in a big city what these rounds do to the human body and you will know where I get my adjitives from.

[Shuie]

Damn, those shattering and grenading Hydra-Shoks sound nastier than the original Black Talons . Its just a hollowpoint. Some work better than others. Most break apart when they hit things like bone or steel plates or bowling pins at the range. Some randomly dont work at all in semi-autos. Run a few boxes of them through your gun to make sure they function before you trust them.

[artplumber]

Skip,
Don't forget that if your "friend" has a sig other, they should be able to handle the piece as well. That means probably smaller hands and less able to handle recoil. Most big mag autos are not going to be friendly for the ladies.

I'm no expert, but am a wheel gun believer for home defense, because they are mechanically simple and will be more likely to be ready to go in the hands of someone(s) who don't necessarily shoot frequently/maintain the piece routinely. They also handle some measure of dirt/abuse pretty well. If you want rapid loading, you can always use speedloaders.

[rob macdonald]

I carry 9mm Berretta here in IZ because that's what is issued. Some SF folks carry .45s as they're allowed flexibility. I'd much prefer the stopping power of a .45. I truly believe it's a moot point, though. Get shot by damned near any round and it'll stop your train of thought. Hit your target with the first round and most likely it will lose interest in you. As to my preference, I don't want my opponent to lose interest, I want him dead. That said, I also carry an M4 with seven, 30 round magazines any time I leave the FOB, because if they're close enough to reach with a pistol I'm in trouble.

Get what fits comfortably in your hand and practice with it. Unless you're gonna bust some caps, 6 or 17 rounds isn't going to make a difference. Smaller is cheaper, and easier to carry.

FWIW, I carry a Paslode framing gun when I'm home.

[nostatic]

what about an SW99?

http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293605&item=831353&sw_activeTab=1

[Shuie]

Look for a used German made Walther P99 instead. Its the same gun, but made in Germany. You know how that goes. Make sure its one of the ones that was made in Germany, not the ones that were assembled here. I think the German guns were in CA before the real DOJ approved list craziness began out there so you still should be able to find them. Great guns. They can run off of old Walther P88 mags also since you guys cant have the good ones out there

[nostatic]

then maybe this is a better choice?

http://www.sigarms.com/products/classiccompactsize-models.asp?product_id=39

What is a good source for used pistols?

[Shuie]

Those are nice. Same thing as with the P99, try look for one that was actually made in Germany. In CA, I wouldnt even know where to begin looking for a used gun. Be very careful and make sure you understand what your rights are out there for purchasing from individuals, etc. I dont think you have many left but dont take any chances.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by nostatic

What is a good source for used pistols?

Most gun stores here in Cali sell used firearms... pawn shops used to carrry them but I haven't been in a pawn shop in years.

[ZLP]

Stop pussy footin' people. Get a .45....

-ZLP
Springfield 1911 Operator

[HardDrive]

Thanks shuie.

I like the USPs for 2 main reasons.

A) They have an actual safety. Some might view that as an old school hinderance in a hot situation. I view it as both a safety mechanism, as well as a moment to think before you change everyones life forever.

B) I have never shot a more balanced gun. The compact has enough grip to get 3 fingers on. It settles so quickly after each shot. Just a damn well laid out weapon.

[Shuie]

The USP's are very nice. I rarely shoot anything DA/SA anymore but I would still own a USP if I did. Another nice thing about them is that they take very little time and effort to clean compared to most other semi auto pistols. There are no nook and cranny areas inside the slide or frame for crud to build up. Not that cleaning a pistol is a big deal or anything

[Steve Carlton]

That same issue crossed my mind. So I got a .380, 9mm, .40, and .45 ACP.

[nostatic]

this does look like a nice one:

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/index.jsp?loc=101&SITEID=A&PartNumber=704531

[RANDY P]

Originally posted by nostatic
this does look like a nice one:

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/index.jsp?loc=101&SITEID=A&PartNumber=704531

Nostatic goes strapped? What's this world coming to?!

OBTW - .45, and practice like there's no tommorow. I have a Para 14.45 (double stack 1911 clone) and my carry is a Ruger P345 which, for an inexpensive gun works extremely well out of the box. Can't be happier.

rjp

[Joeaksa]

.45 cal 1911. Its just a very good caliber. If you cannot hit it with 8 shots then you need to go back to the range. If a .45 even connects with part of the body it will take them down.

Have seen several people hit with a 9mm and still keep coming at you. This will not happen with the .45 auto...

JoeA

[alf]

Originally posted by Taz's Master
Get something you'll actually carry. You're much more apt to have a PPK or model 60 on your person, while a model 29, or Anaconda, or even most medium-framed handguns would spend much of its time secured at home next to the long guns. A .380 or a .38 special at the scene of the emergency has lots more knockdown power than anything left at home.

This is sound advise. I would add to that-stay out of trouble but train and be prepared for trouble.

A good book to get some info on this topic below. It neither advocates big holes or little holes, just walks you througj a decision process with objective data points.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0965678415/ref=pd_sim_2/102-5126905-0212168?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

[SLO-BOB]

Yep-What JoeA said. 45 cal.

[thomas682]

Round placement is as important, if not more so, than caliber or round energy/grain wt.

Your specific and/or situational applications should be the second factor in caliber choice as a .40 cal will perform better at 60 meters than a .45 - though a .45 will transfer more energy/knockdown at 10 meters. In a true CQB tactical application I prefer a .45 cal on a 1911 frame (Kimber) or a Sig P220. For general all purpose type CCW I prefer a Sig P239 in .40cal - reliable, safe and lightweight.

In any application Cor-Bon manufactures what I believe to be the best one-shot-stop mass-produced ammo. You may find hand loads in +P or +P+ that might perform slightly better but then open yourself to an overzealous DA or plaintiff’s attorneys should you have to experience the unfortunate event of terminating a life-threatening situation. Never thought much of the 9mm due to over penetration thus the need for sub-sonic rounds in non-suppressed tactics. I know of few Agency operators who carry a 9mm.

First master weapon safety. Then learn the levels of force escalation, then terminal round placement, then multiples, i.e. double tap and two rounds to the center mass one to the head.

Always try everything to extract yourself from a bad situation - if you cannot then go loud.