Pistol Caliber Recommendations

[Shuie]

Due to the Eliason rear site, a gold cup is just about the last 1911 I would recommend for self defense. Im the biggest Colt fan in the world and I have never wasted money on a gold cup. Its an overpriced target gun designed to shoot low power 200gr semi wadcutter loads. Some of the really old ones (well outside the $1500 range) are nice, but the more recent guns (80 series, dark days of Colt) are garbage. Even if you change the recoil spring to a full weight 16lb, the Eliason site is still unsuitable and is going to break if you shoot anything other than bullseye wadcutter loads.

The subject of the 'best 1911' will be debated til the end of time. If you want a good resource for 1911 stuff spend some time at the following website:

http://www.pistolsmith.com

[Mule]

Never said it was "the best" anything. Would you agree it's easy to pick up and hit with?

[jyl]

Originally posted by nostatic
well, its a lot cheaper to buy a .22 as opposed to a 9mm and a conversion kit.

.22s are a lot of fun for target shooting and plinking (not sure where anyone can plink in So Cal anymore). Since #1 on your list was stopping power I assumed you were looking for more of a defense gun.

For a .22, of the guns you showed, I'd like the Ruger. It's a classic, has been around a long time, there are accessories available. I used to shoot one, with a bull barrel, it was nice.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by Shuie
A gold cup is about the last 1911 I would recommend for self defense. Im the biggest Colt fan in the world and I have never wasted money on a gold cup. Its an overpriced target gun designed to shoot low power 200gr semi wadcutter loads. Some of the really old ones (well outside the $1500 range) are nice, but the more recent guns are garbage. You wont get many rounds of full power 230gr hardball through one with the factory 11lb recoil spring before the ****ty Eliason rear site shears off.

That is soo true! Even using a stiffer spring and a ShokBuff isn't sufficent to save that snag-on-everything rear sight. I remember having to using a paperclip to hold the rear sight on so I could finish a pin shoot once or twice. That gun shot well but that was years ago, I don't know what they are like now.

IMO, a novice would be better served by spending $500 on a good used gun and $500 on practice ammo instead of spending $1000 on a nicer gun. (I'm picking numbers out of the air but you get the idea.)
-Chris

[SLO-BOB]

The Gold Cup was designed as a competition/target type gun. Are there better 45s for home defense? I guess so, but I'll bet sights don't even come into play when the real situation happens. You want a gun you can intuitively point and shoot well, regardless of whether you have blades, ramps, slots, laser, glow in the dark heat seeking....uh wait....anyway, that said-I think a Gold Cup would be a great defense gun-if you're comfortable with it.

I really think people get waaaay too caught up in the latest, greatest stuff. Know your gun. Practice with it. You'll be way ahead of the next guy. Who would you rather face-some punk with a 23 round Glock or some old-timer with the sights filed off his 38? I know which one would make me foul my trousers.

[scottmandue]

Okay, get a .45 for yourself and a 9 for your wife... problem solved!

Jeff, you seem to know allot about this stuff and give real good advice, are you in law enforcement? You also seem to have picked the 911 I want to buy some day, a 1972 2.4.

Ruger P345 mmmmm been thinkin about one of those for a long time.

[jriera]

For home get a .12 Mossberg, 2 rubber bullets, 2 '00' and 2 'flechette', the 'unique' sound of loading the Mossberg will deter quite a lot of bad guys.

For carry, if your intention is to 'avoid' lawsuits get a 5" .45, your choice between hydrashock, black talon, ranger talon, aguila iq ammo.


If you prefer a revolver get a .38 SPL (Lady Smith is a good choice) same ammo applies.

Be careful with 'big' calibers.. while a .357 or a .44 may seem an ideal caliber for self defense (and it is) the noise will not allow you to be as effective as you should be in enclosed environments (i.e. home).

Remember guns don't kill people, people kill people. I have been around guns for long time, I design and build my competition guns, I train police on gun safety and CBQ, I practice 100 rounds a day .. I never carry a gun, I'm not ready to shoot anybody.

[ZLP]

Originally posted by jriera
For home get a .12 Mossberg, 2 rubber bullets, 2 '00' and 2 'flechette', the 'unique' sound of loading the Mossberg will deter quite a lot of bad guys.

For carry, if your intention is to 'avoid' lawsuits get a 5" .45, your choice between hydrashock, black talon, ranger talon, aguila iq ammo.


If you prefer a revolver get a .38 SPL (Lady Smith is a good choice) same ammo applies.

Be careful with 'big' calibers.. while a .357 or a .44 may seem an ideal caliber for self defense (and it is) the noise will not allow you to be as effective as you should be in enclosed environments (i.e. home).

Remember guns don't kill people, people kill people. I have been around guns for long time, I design and build my competition guns, I train police on gun safety and CBQ, I practice 100 rounds a day .. I never carry a gun, I'm not ready to shoot anybody.

I always keep mine loaded with black talons. BTW how is that airbox working out for you?

[pwd72s]

Interesting mess of opinions here...I'm an old goat, still sticking with his old Browning Hi-Power. It was a good pistol when I bought it, and it still is a good pistol...

[RickM]

I chose a .45 Colt Combat Elite. Accurate and ammo will always be readily available.

[jyl]

BTW a quasi-standard seems to have developed for accessory rails under the front of the frame, ahead of the triggerguard. If I were buying a new semi-auto, I'd give a point or two for having those rails.

[nostatic]

actually my list wasn't meant to be hierarchical...I should have just bulleted. It was more a list of the criteria.

So if I can distill this down, the majority seem to think that for "home protection" (broadly defined), a .45ACP is the gun of choice (due to stopping power), with a 1911 being a favorite (Kimber, Springfield, etc). BUT, for someone with little/no experience, getting a .22LR (perhaps one that mimics a larger caliber weapon) and firing a few K rounds through it, then moving up to a larger weapon is the way to go.

Or does one just "bite the bullet" and start with a .45 (on the range)?

And have a shotgun around just in case. I remember at one of my jobs many many years ago we used to have a .410 "Snakecharmer" around for "emergencies."

[2.7RACER]

Back to the original question;"what is the best semi-auto pistol caliber to have in time of crisis?"
As pointed out by so many here the "best" is a hand gun that you have practiced with and have become familiar with the operation of the handgun.
So many semi-autos, even the high dollar ones, don't work with all available ammo.
I have seen so many jammed hand guns at the range along with people not even remotely familiar with gun handling.
One reason the police usually prevail in any kind of shootout is "PRACTICE"
The bad guys die when confronted with an armed person familiar with their hand gun and some tactical training.
To answer the question; "the best caliber to use in times of crisis" is one which you have PRACTICED and TRAINED with.
Nothing beats practice, practice, practice and training.
Once you have made the decision to own a gun, you have taken on the AWESOME RESPONSIBILITY to use it only when absolutely necessary, with the TRAINING and PRACTICE to use it well.
An aside, don't forget to keep your guns away from children, preferably locked up.
At the range the question often comes up "what is best to protect my home"? answer? A large dog.

[FrayAdjacent911]

I'm thinking about getting a couple more of these now that carrying in a vehicle is pretty much legal in Texas without a CHL:



Star Modelo BM, 9mm

Nice little 1911 based pistol made by Star in Spain. It's too bad they went out of business, as I'd love to get a couple of these new. They can be had for less than $200 in varying conditions. I purchased two at a surplus store in Fort Worth a couple years ago. They are pretty reliable. One needs the extractor replaced (which I was able to find from Numrich gun parts) and the slide stop is iffy holding the slide open on the last round. The other had a tweaked recoil assembly causing it not to go into full battery. Numrich had replacement assemblies, so I snagged one. Swapped a couple parts between the two, and one is running great, the other is iffy, so I'll use it for parts.

They're accurate, recoil is mild as it's an all-steel pistol, and the trigger is GREAT. They fit well in Commander size 1911 holsters, but are slightly skinnier.

I'd like to get another two or three, so I can have one for carry, one for night stand duty and one to take/leave in the car.

[jyl]

I have a hankering for one of these.



Anyone have firsthand (ha ha) experience?

[FrayAdjacent911]

jyl, I'd love to try one of those... the P7M8 is a nice pistol, from what I read... but expensive, and no longer in production..

[ZLP]

Originally posted by jyl
I have a hankering for one of these.



Anyone have firsthand (ha ha) experience?

Ah, the H&K Squeezcocker....I do. I didnt like it much. Its 9mm which im not really a fan of and also having to squeeze the handle to fire the gun takes away from accuracy. It is way overpriced at $1400. For $200 more you could get an Operator like mine and have a far superior gun. H&K is no longer making these BTW.

[jyl]

Originally posted by nostatic
actually my list wasn't meant to be hierarchical...I should have just bulleted. It was more a list of the criteria.

So if I can distill this down, the majority seem to think that for "home protection" (broadly defined), a .45ACP is the gun of choice (due to stopping power), with a 1911 being a favorite (Kimber, Springfield, etc). BUT, for someone with little/no experience, getting a .22LR (perhaps one that mimics a larger caliber weapon) and firing a few K rounds through it, then moving up to a larger weapon is the way to go.

Or does one just "bite the bullet" and start with a .45 (on the range)?

And have a shotgun around just in case. I remember at one of my jobs many many years ago we used to have a .410 "Snakecharmer" around for "emergencies."

I'd get the Ruger 22, spend a couple months going to the range, then think about the .45 or 9 or whatever.

After you're comfortable at the range, might consider taking your son. If the gun's going to be in your place, you've got to take kid precautions. I honestly don't know what the best approach is - to lock the gun up tight and conceal it from the kid, or to expose the kid to the gun enough to remove that "forbidden fruit" fascination and still lock the gun up tight. Your wife's opinion might factor into this too.

Here is an old thread on range and safety tips. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=220574&highlight=gun+safety (I see I weighed in there with the opinion that a first gun should ideally not be a semi-auto. I guess I'm not being that consistent, but maybe that's because I've met you.)

[RickM]

I agree with John.on a starter pistol.

My first pistol was a Stainless Ruger 22. My mistake was to get a tapered barrel as opposed to a Bull (Non-tapered) barrel. The balance with the Bull is much better and enjoyable to shoot.

That said, although the .22 is cheap to shoot I find the .45 much more fun...and quite accurate.


Tapered:





Bull:

[VINMAN]

Luv my H&K USP.40 Awsome gun!