Proof that right wingers are honest - Page 2

Tim Hancock · 09-16-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
The era of big government is officially over.

We are now officially in the era of huge government.

"I feel like W just caved in big time to the left's pressure."

Tim, Presidents don't need to cave into either side's pressure in a situation like this. They are significantly stronger than you would give credit to any Dem or Rep President, especially one with his party controlling virtually all of government.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility. Your belief is what makes me mad about peoples' political ideals. If your guy does something you don't like, it's not his fault, it's the other side who MADE him do it. Lame excuse at best.

Shaun, I am ticked off about what he said. In this instance, I am "bashing" Bush based on my beliefs. My caving to the left was not meant to imply that it is the left's fault. I should have said that his speech MIGHT have been made in response to the blame game being played out in the media.

No matter, I am ticked that Bush is proposing such a big spending plan. I DO NOT FEEL THE GOVT SHOULD HAVE TO COMPLETELY REBUILD STORM DAMAGE. I also do not cherish the idea of supporting, housing feeding lazy people for the REST of their lives just because a storm flooded their house. Temporary shelter for everyone, OK, using tax dollars to buy new homes, NO!

My "right wingers" are honest post title was to highlight the fact that someone you might label a neocon, actually will say something bad about Bush when they actually disagree with something he did.

Rejoice Shaun, I have actually ripped on Bush. You should be grinning ear to ear!

bryanthompson · bryanthompson's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by turbo6bar
Why should anyone fight for the black vote?

Because I think our ideas are better. If you look at the last 30 years (maybe more?) of liberal oppression & reign over Louisiana/NO, how much good has that done for (specifically) those blacks. They are just as poor and dependant as they always were. Yet they keep voting for democrats, and nothing ever improves.

It's time to try some new ideas. School vouchers and Bush's home ownership plan seems like a step in the right direction.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 09-16-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Hancock
Shaun, I am ticked off about what he said. In this instance, I am "bashing" Bush based on my beliefs. My caving to the left was not meant to imply that it is the left's fault. I should have said that his speech MIGHT have been made in response to the blame game being played out in the media.

No matter, I am ticked that Bush is proposing such a big spending plan. I DO NOT FEEL THE GOVT SHOULD HAVE TO COMPLETELY REBUILD STORM DAMAGE. I also do not cherish the idea of supporting, housing feeding lazy people for the REST of their lives just because a storm flooded their house. Temporary shelter for everyone, OK, using tax dollars to buy new homes, NO!

My "right wingers" are honest post title was to highlight the fact that someone you might label a neocon, actually will say something bad about Bush when they actually disagree with something he did.

Rejoice Shaun, I have actually ripped on Bush. You should be grinning ear to ear!

Tim, I take no joy whatsoever on your ripping on bush. I am glad that you have a solid formed opinion, the nation needs more of these on the Right and Left rather than falling in lockstep with the party and it's associated media arms.

Mulhollanddose · 09-16-2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bryanthompson
Because I think our ideas are better. If you look at the last 30 years (maybe more?) of liberal oppression & reign over Louisiana/NO, how much good has that done for (specifically) those blacks. They are just as poor and dependant as they always were. Yet they keep voting for democrats, and nothing ever improves.

It's time to try some new ideas. School vouchers and Bush's home ownership plan seems like a step in the right direction.

The left calls this guy, "the conscience of the Senate"...Something magic happens the moment a sinner repents and gets baptised a Democrat...They and the media proclaim them white as snow!

Mysterytrain · 09-16-2005, 01:22 PM

LOL, I stumbled on this waste of bandwidth while doing a search on Red Line Oil !! I'm always amused by the totally un-christian like politics that many of you 'red state' folks have towards other kinds of people. Geez, whatever happened to helping your neighbor..I'm not talking about an engine drop party. I'm talking about a place to live and something to eat..a school for kids to go to. Seems that 'you' don't have issues with a billion dollars a week going to Iraq, but spending it at home on the less fortunate seems to piss a lot of the people off. I don't get it...save 'em before they are born then starve them to death when they get older..good plan. Amen! Can I hear a little.."I got mine now you go get yours..Amen! We aren't talking about rebuilding 5 million dollar beach houses for these people, just basic housing. I've been a Porsche guy for some 20 years now and have heard everyone of the "Porsche owners are pricks" jokes..I'm starting to think they are true. Now, back to my Red Line search.......play nice in this gutter.

Mulhollanddose · 09-16-2005, 01:31 PM

Now I know why Jersey is the second most corrupt state in the union, right behind Louisiana...Love that Toricelli!

Mulhollanddose · 09-16-2005, 01:40 PM

Bush said it's important that government quickly fix the region's infrastructure to give people hope. Asked who would pay for the work and how it would impact the nation's rising debt, Bush said he was confident the United States could pay for reconstruction "and our other priorities."

He said that means "cutting unnecessary spending" and maintaining economic growth, "which means we should not raise taxes."

Back to the right...good job Bush!...Surely the Democrats will applaud his call to shrinking the bloated budget...NOT...Hypocrites.

gaijindabe · 09-16-2005, 01:48 PM

These are some main points:

"The task will measure our unity as a people. Americans of every race and religion were touched by this storm, yet some of the greatest hardship fell upon citizens already facing lives of struggle: the elderly, the vulnerable and the poor.

"And this poverty," he said, "has roots in generations of segregation and discrimination that closed many doors of opportunity.

"As we clear away the debris of a hurricane, let us also clear away the legacy of inequality. Let us deliver new hope to communities that were suffering before the storm. "As we rebuild homes and businesses," Bush said, "we will renew our promise as a land of equality and decency."

The fact is this storm has laid these communities bare - and there are a lot of Americans that do not like what they see. Bush is in fact a politician and he has pollsters and advisers and the rest telling him what to do. This is going to cost zillions and much of it wont be fairly distributed or spent wisely. But it is going to happen..

turbo6bar · 09-16-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mysterytrain
LOL, I stumbled on this waste of bandwidth while doing a search on Red Line Oil !! I'm always amused by the totally un-christian like politics that many of you 'red state' folks have towards other kinds of people. Geez, whatever happened to helping your neighbor..I'm not talking about an engine drop party. I'm talking about a place to live and something to eat..a school for kids to go to.

The next time I have a claim on a rental property, do I have to pay for the deductible, or will you pay the entire bill?

Let's help these people with subsidized government loans, but let us not give blank checks.

Mulhollanddose · 09-16-2005, 02:16 PM

The democrat plan for dealing with poverty apparently leads away from what they propound to remedy...It seems readily apparent that liberalism and entitlement only makes personal irresponsibility generational (San Francisco's homelessness illustrates this well, as does New Orleans poverty)...The problem obviously compounds...It is the rejection of personal responsibility and acceptance of the Democrat philosophy that nurtures such social ills.

It seems, to use an analogy of the garden, that the Democrats philosophy would demand watering the weeds and pissing on that which is productive (the evil rich)...Them crazy Republican red-necks have a different philosophy--pull the weeds (do not feed the problem) and nurture the garden.

Does it sound heartless?...On the contrary. People are much more capable than they are told they are. We Republicans believe they are capable, and believe forcing their hands will not only improve their collective self-esteem, but also make the country stronger...Democrats think they are incapable and somehow inferior and therefore keep them enabled, indeed crippled, by projecting this pity and victim mentality onto them...Some Democrats simply understand that racism and poverty are a business and, therefore, it does not pay to solve the problem, for if a solution is achieved the problem is no longer a campaign issue.

Superman · 09-16-2005, 03:13 PM

Yeah, with out sounding like I'm attacking Tim, I'd have to agree with his detractors, for a variety of reasons.

I've said many times that it seems CRYSTAL CLEAR to me that Jesus is not comfortable with this survival of the fittest, every man for himself idea. Okay, that's one thing.

Also, if you respect the Constitution of the United States of America, then I hope you have noticed that is preamble, it's general thrust, is a short list of federal government responsibilities that include "promote the general welfare." And here, government is really the wrong word, since the Constitution was written before the gubmint existed. This is a shared responsibility. With all due respect for some folks' apparent belief that this nation was founded on the principle of every-man-for-himself, it was in fact NOT.

And there's more. These folks in NO are not folks like Tim Hancock who own their homes and have insurance, yadda yadda. One of the side-effects of this disaster is that the nation is getting a peek at the human chaff that is discarded by an economic system like the one so many of you seem to support with religious-like fervor. Rebuilding NO, and the millions of "lives" (if you would call them that) destroyed would be far easier if Safeco and Hartford had written property, life and income insurance policies on all those people. That's not the case.

Another point: This is not just their problem. The scope of this disaster, both with the abject poverty existent there before Katrina, and then the water problem now, the entire nation is affected. Oil prices are just a small part of that impact. These people are refugees, let's not mince words and sugar-coat it. They need to eat. Each state is probably going to host a contingent, and the resources in Texas are going to be badly outstripped.

Another thing. The more a statesman (I wouldn't suggest our current "president" has any statesmanship qualities, by the way) learns how to operate government, the more he's going to look like a liberal. Because conservatives hate government and are trying to tear it down while liberals believe in government and understand its role. And even if an illiterate cretin from Texas is placed in the White House, the day will come when he will need to learn to run a government, no matter how much he hates it. That day has come for the aloof, distant, conceited, arrogant monkey in Washington right now.

And finally, while it took Dubya the Dunce a fair amount of time to figure this out, his legacy hinges on what he says and does now (or doesn't say and doesn't do as the case may be). What he's doing now, I believe, has nothing whatsoever with any leadership abilities or compassion or sense of responsibility. The current "president" is making marketing moves. That is all. He's playing the only game he has ever played. Politics.

skipdup · 09-16-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superman
...
I've said many times that it seems CRYSTAL CLEAR to me that Jesus is not comfortable with this survival of the fittest, every man for himself idea. Okay, that's one thing.
...

Supe- It seems clear to me that Jesus stayed out of politics. There is a huge distinction between people helping people and the government helping people. I think it's clear Jesus is for people helping people, not necessarily the federal government helping people.

Now, don't come back and say something silly like I want to leave all these people to fend for themselves. I'm not arguing that. In fact, I'm not totally what I think in this case... I'm torn.

Respectfully, I just think your Jesus argument is misapplied in this case.

- Skip

Shaun @ Tru6 · 09-16-2005, 03:30 PM

Skip, I'm into Matthew right now and can say that Jesus would be very disappointed with this view. Jesus railed against the hypocrisy of the then current organized religious leadership, not so much about government.

He would certainly be applauding everyone/entity who brought people into their homes, military bases, etc.

Mulhollanddose · 09-16-2005, 03:37 PM

Gotta love them peace-loving liberals.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 09-16-2005, 03:40 PM

If you have have truth in government, might as well have truth in art.

Mulhollanddose · 09-16-2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
Skip, I'm into Matthew right now and can say that Jesus would be very disappointed with this view. Jesus railed against the hypocrisy of the then current organized religious leadership, not so much about government.

He would certainly be applauding everyone/entity who brought people into their homes, military bases, etc.

Jesus never advocated in favor of the Roman empire...He never advocated forced compliance with state coerced beneficience...It is a fact that the more the nation's heartless bureaucracies confiscate from hard working people, the less generous they are...Not to mention that abortion and homosexuality were considered abominations to him and his father.

Mulhollanddose · 09-16-2005, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
If you have have truth in government, might as well have truth in art.

Right on greenie!...Peace bro...

Edited - pic removed.

Tim Hancock · 09-16-2005, 03:51 PM

Supe, I agree that W is making this decision based on "marketing". He typically does not follow the politically correct path.... He typically sticks to his guns. This time he "accepted" responsiblity for the govt's response and now he is pushing a plan that would make most liberals proud.

I never said we should not help others to some degree. I just think this is way over the top. It may help the republicans in future elections, but I am sticking to my guns.... This 200+ billion dollar welfare package is BS!

As far as the Jesus factor, well I am no bible pounder, but I believe it is considered proper to take care of one's own family when able instead of living your whole life expecting handouts. I still cannot get past seeing the urban types complaining about living conditions in the dome, while others, in other states were shown stating that they were thankful for their lives and ANY minute amount of help that they had received.

rant #2 over

skipdup · 09-16-2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
Skip, I'm into Matthew right now and can say that Jesus would be very disappointed with this view. Jesus railed against the hypocrisy of the then current organized religious leadership, not so much about government.

He would certainly be applauding everyone/entity who brought people into their homes, military bases, etc.

Shaun- I just don't believe Jesus would have been interested in the federal government's actions in this case. I DO think he would absolutely applaud people helping people and especially the churches helping people.

I fail to see how He "railed against the hypocrisy of the then current organized religious leadership..." has anything to do with federal assistance.

But, I could be wrong... I'd be interested if you know where it talks about government helping people in the Bible. Or, something relevant to this discussion...

But, I just realized... Based on previous experience, I'm probably about one or two posts away from someone posting an anti-Christian post/insult - which I am tired of. Therefore, I will not continue participating in this portion of this discussion.

Feel free to PM if your interested in continuing "off-line".

- Skip

Superman · 09-16-2005, 04:04 PM

I think you are both correct. Jesus did not come to save governments, he came to present a choice to individuals. So, to some degree my analogy is misplaced.

But not completely. This argument, while largely true, is a bit of a technicality, since government is our collective system of taking care of ourselves and each other. You say "Jesus is for people helping people, not necessarily the federal government helping people." Well, you've probably noticed I am tired of people pretending that gubmint is "them." Government is "us." You make a distinction between the people of the United States of America and the government of the United States of America, and I do not make that distinction. And I had hoped we were a nation founded on Christian principles.

I've listed a number of reasons why our collective resources should be brought to bear on the problem in NO, and I stand by each of them. While still understanding and respecting your caveat.