Christmas is gone

[VINMAN]

Yeah I heard that on the radio too. I cant remember where it was. The plan was to have the kids sit in a chair next to Santa.

Mabye a better idea is to have them talk to Santa trough a phone and glass wall like they do in prison. It's pretty sad.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

When are people going to get past this ridiculous notion that they can substitute actual parenting for putting their kids in a bubble, free from all the very real things that exist in the world - potential dangers, naughty words, evil people, pictures of boobies on the internet, etc. It's a joke. Somewhere along the line "parenting" ceased to exist. Now either both parents have to work so much they're never home (or there's only one) so they feel guilty about it or they just can't be bothered, so they feel that restricting kids' access to "bad" things is enough - or perhaps a substitute to placate their own failure. They now seem to think if they shelter their kids and Disni-fy their entire upbringings that's adequate.

Wrong.

The P.C. movement was born out of this idiotic mentality that suddenly people are these precious little glass ornaments that are fragile and delicate and can't be offended or they'll shatter - forever broken. What an utter load of horse****. While I think that civility and the rules of polite conversation dictate that a person moderate their speaking and choose words that get the point across (first and foremost) and aren't deliberately inflammatory (secondly), I believe P.C. has undermined this concept.

If someone WANTS to speak in an overtly offensive manner, such is their right. I always understood "freedom of speech" to mean just that. I have the right to say what I want, when I want, to whom I want and even have the right to offend them, and to be offended in return by them. Can't take it? Got news for you - the strong survive. Find a way to cope with it or make the offender realize they're acting outside the boundaries of civilized behavior. Don't just give them (or me) that "well, that's offensive" crap. I normally just say, "good, now I've got your attention" in response. I don't do it willy-nilly, but it IS a tactic in conversation and has its place.

I'm not Xian either and personally find 90% of what supposedly "Christian" individuals do and say to be completely un-Christ-like (and yes, I know what this means - I was raised Catholic). But I don't give a damn about calling a holiday "Christmas" or having "Christmas trees". Belief in God is a historical part of this culture and even if we've now moved past the need for it, it IS a part of what got us here and we should at least acknowledge that. Is anyone REALLY harmed by history when it's accurate?

[cool_chick]

Well I don't know about you guys, but Christmas is alive and well here in the city. Never left.

I am confused as to what they do there, where you guys live.

[gr8fl4porsche]

1. God

1. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
2. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.



Where does the concept that mentioning the word 'God' involves endorsing a particular religion - ie Christianity or any religion whatsoever?

'One nation under God' to me does not endorse religion but rather invokes the belief that we are in a sovereign nation with noone to answer to except ourselves. The key word in the phrase is 'one' not God.

Christmas is a national holiday. If you don't like it, don't celebrate it. I don't get bent out shape when people celebrate Arbor Day even though trees really piss me off.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally posted by cool_chick
I was talking about the rumor why Christmas is December 25....that it was intentionally changed to crush the Winter Solstice festival.

Because it is believed Jesus was born in another month (April...or November...? can't remember now)...

Ahh yes, I see now. That is correct.

Originally posted by Jeff964
Sooner or later, Santa will not be allowed to greet children by shouting "Ho! Ho! Ho!"

I can see that happening. Prostitutes will start being offended any day now...

[SLO-BOB]

[red-beard]

Cool is closest to the truth. The question was: "Who was Constantine?"

http://www.didyouknow.cd/xmas/xmashistory.htm

In ancient pagan times, the last day of winter in the Northern Hemisphere was celebrated as the night that the Great Mother Goddess gives birth to the baby Sun God. It is also called Yule, the day a huge log is added to a bonfire, around which everyone would dance and sing to awaken the sun from its long winter sleep.

In Roman times, it became the celebrations honouring Saturnus (the harvest god) and Mithras (the ancient god of light), a form of sun worship that had come to Rome from Syria a century before with the cult of Sol Invictus. It announced that winter is not forever, that life continues, and an invitation to stay in good spirit.

The last day of winter in the Northern Hemisphere occurs between the 20th and 22 December. The Roman celebrated Saturnalia between 17 and 24 December.

The early Christians
To avoid persecution during the Roman pagan festival, early Christians decked their homes with Saturnalia holly. As Christian numbers increased and their customs prevailed, the celebrations took on a Christian observance. But the early church actually did not celebrate the birth of Christ in December until Telesphorus, who was the second Bishop of Rome from 125 to 136AD, declared that Church services should be held during this time to celebrate "The Nativity of our Lord and Saviour." However, since no-one was quite sure in which month Christ was born, Nativity was often held in September, which was during the Jewish Feast of Trumpets (modern-day Rosh Hashanah). In fact, for more than 300 years, people observed the birth of Jesus on various dates.

In the year 274AD, solstice fell on 25th December. Roman Emperor Aurelian proclaimed the date as "Natalis Solis Invicti," the festival of the birth of the invincible sun. In 320 AD, Pope Julius I specified the 25th of December as the official date of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Christmas official, but not generally observed
In 325AD, Constantine the Great, the first Christian Roman emperor, introduced Christmas as an immovable feast on 25 December. He also introduced Sunday as a holy day in a new 7-day week, and introduced movable feasts (Easter). In 354AD, Bishop Liberius of Rome officially ordered his members to celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25 December.

However, even though Constantine officiated 25 December as the birthday of Christ, Christians, recognising the date as a pagan festival, did not share in the emperor's good meaning. Christmas failed to gain universal recognition among Christians until quite recently. In England, Oliver Cromwell banned Christmas festivities between 1649 and 1660 through the so-called Blue Laws, believing that Christmas should be a solemn day.

When many Protestants escaped persecution by fleeing to the colonies all over the world, interest in joyous Christmas celebrations was rekindled there. Still, Christmas was not even a legal holiday until the 1800s. And, keep in mind, there was no Father Christmas (Santa Claus) figure at that time.

Christmas becomes popular
The popularity of Christmas was spurred on in 1820 by Washington Irving's book The Keeping of Christmas at Bracebridge Hall. In 1834, Britain's Queen Victoria brought her German husband, Prince Albert, into Windsor Castle, introducing the tradition of the Christmas tree and carols that were held in Europe to the British Empire. A week before Christmas in 1834, Charles Dickens published A Christmas Carol (in which he wrote that Scrooge required Cratchit to work, and that the US Congress met on Christmas Day). It was so popular that neither the churches nor the governments could not ignore the importance of Christmas celebrations. In 1836, Alabama became the first state in the US to declare Christmas a legal holiday. In 1837, T.H. Hervey's The Book of Christmas also became a best seller. In 1860, American illustrator Thomas Nast borrowed from the European stories about Saint Nicholas, the patron saint of children, to create Father Christmas (Santa Claus). In 1907, Oklahoma became the last US state to declare Christmas a legal holiday. Year by year, countries all over the world started to recognise Christmas as the day for celebrating the birth of Jesus.

Have a merry Christmas
Today, many of the pagan uses are reflected in Christmas. Jesus was born in March, yet his birth is celebrated on 25 December, the time of solstice. The Christmas celebrations end the 12th day of Christmas (6 January), the same amount of days that the return of the sun was celebrated by ancient and Roman pagans. It thus is no surprise that Christian puritans - or even conservative Christians - often are upset that Christmas "is not as religious as it was meant to be," forgetting that Christmas was not celebrated at all until fairly recently.

[red-beard]

oh, yeah....It's All About The Benjamins...

[cashflyer]

Originally posted by Sebring77
....As far as remembering the birth of Christ, he actually asks (in the bible) that we remember his death. I guess if I was sacrificing myself for all of humanity I would want an emphasis placed on that too, rather than the relativelely inconsequential birthday.

Of course... because birth has no significance in martyrdom.

Despite my ravings about T-day (another thread), it's probably the best of the so-called christian holidays. ...

T-day... as in Thanksgiving?
Since when was it a "christian" holiday? It's origin is not in religion, and it is observed as a holiday only in the USA.

Or were you talking about another T-day?

[SLO-BOB]

[scottmandue]

Red beard hit it on the head.

First about Constantine and second about the Benjamin's...

And BTW that is what most mainstream Church's are teaching nowadays.