Art and War

[AGRO1]

Alan - your self promotion is shameless and pathetic.

[AGRO1]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
His photos are good. Really good.

So are his Photochop skilz

[450knotOffice]

Sure. But his website mentions that (although not quite so bluntly). I know that I could play with editing software for the rest of my life and still I would not be able to produce the product that he does. I'm sure 99.9% of us on this board would not be able to either. Remember, these are his pictures that he's editing. They are his pictures to modify and then try to sell as art. And as far as I'm concerned, they are art.

[mnmblu]

Thanks fellas, I really love what I do... Very glad you like them.

[mnmblu]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
Sure. But his website mentions that (although not quite so bluntly).

Maybe that it needs a bit of toning down, thanks for the the good advice.

[AGRO1]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
And as far as I'm concerned, they are art.

You call that "artwork" ?? Taking a good photo and using Photoshop?? Some may like it, personally I find them very un-original... Yes, art is very subjective, and countless schools have each proposed their own ways to define quality, yet they all seem to agree in at least one point: once you have accepted their aesthetic choices, the value of your work is determined by its capacity to transcend the limits of its chosen medium in order to strike some universal chord. The only universal chord here is using Photoshop and other digital programs to tweak a certain medium - not much originality there.
"Pure" art is aesthetic rather than utilitarian. Purely aesthetic objects can be said to have, at the very least, entertainment value, which can be considered useful. There is nothing PURE about what Alan does. Is it entertaining, yes, for some. Is it art, I think not.

[mnmblu]

Originally posted by AGRO1
You call that "artwork" ?? Taking a good photo and using Photoshop?? Some may like it, personally I find them very un-original... Yes, art is very subjective, and countless schools have each proposed their own ways to define quality, yet they all seem to agree in at least one point: once you have accepted their aesthetic choices, the value of your work is determined by its capacity to transcend the limits of its chosen medium in order to strike some universal chord. The only universal chord here is using Photoshop and other digital programs to tweak a certain medium - not much originality there.
"Pure" art is aesthetic rather than utilitarian. Purely aesthetic objects can be said to have, at the very least, entertainment value, which can be considered useful. There is nothing PURE about what Alan does. Is it entertaining, yes, for some. Is it art, I think not.

At least I get credit for good photographs. Freudian slip?

Talk about unoriginal. Here is a quote (not even your own) from the thread that got you banned on Rennlist back in 2004. Just another cut an paste?



And... Don't selectively copy from a definition of art. Why don't you show the whole definition, eh? Such as these paragraphs from the definition that you plagiarized without proper credit.

'Art' the processes of man. It is in essence the foremost expression of human creativity. As difficult to define as it is to evaluate, given that each individual artist chooses the rules and parameters that guide ones work, it can still be said that art is the process and the product of choosing a medium to express one's self, a set of rules for the use of that medium, and a set of values that determine what deserves to be expressed through that medium, in order to convey either a belief, an idea, a sensation, or a feeling in the most effective way possible for that medium.

Opinions differ as to what can and cannot be defined as art; for example, can somebody make art if the creation was not intended to be art? Is art always a form of individual expression? Will a work of art only be art once it is finished?

The definition of art is elusive. It is difficult (or perhaps impossible) to come up with a single definition that will include all forms of art and please everybody.

Thus, the word art connotes a sense of ability, of the mastery of a medium, of the efficient use of a language so as to convey meaning, immediacy or depth. Making this judgment requires a basis for criticism: a way to determine whether the sensory input meets the criteria to be considered art, whether it is perceived to be ugly or beautiful. Perception is always colored by experience, so a reaction to art as "ugly" or "beautiful" is necessarily subjective. Countless schools have each proposed their own ways to define quality, yet they all seem to agree in at least one point: once you have accepted their aesthetic choices, the value of your work is determined by its capacity to transcend the limits of its chosen medium in order to strike some universal chord.

Consider photography: are photographs of un-posed, "real life" to be considered art? The common answer is overwhelmingly yes, even though many of these photographs simply seek to mechanically reproduce what people can see with their own eyes. This is also one of the goals of found art: to recontextualize the art of everyday objects.

For the WHOLE text on the definition of art, here is the link:



http://geocities.com/arv_i_nd/art.html

[AGRO1]

Seems I struck a "chord"...LOL

Not sure what "plagiarism” you’re referring to, and that wasn’t the thread that got me banned in 1994, nor is that the correct year, dumbass. In 1994 I was still in college and had never heard of Rennlist. Speaking of Rennlist….why don’t you go back over there and play with the rest of the thin skinned morons and talk about aesthetic upgrades…oh, I forgot, nobody like you over there, hence the reason you had to start your own BBS…
Get a life Alan.

[mnmblu]

No Chord really. People will either like my work or not. However, many do and that's all that matters.

Just taking the opportunity to show everyone your character and please keep giving me the opportunity to show the world what and who you are. Maybe these guys over here don't know you since you rarely post here. But in case they don't, you have the reputation as the most hated person in the Porsche community not to mention top troll of the decade.

I am still a member of Rennlist member in good standing how bout you? Now that you are gone... no problem there. Even your tag team buddy Keith bought some of my werks. Turns out he is a great guy after all.

I started my own forum that, by the way, you were begging to get in, like a little kid with his wet nose pressed up against the window, but of course I would never approve someone like you. You even had the nerve to ask Keith to put in a good word on your behalf so that I would approve you, fat chance.

The PCAR Tiki Lounge for only my friends, referrals and select members of good character and by invitation only. Therefore we never have problems with trolls like you.

So keep it up and let's keep showing everyone your character. Here's a bit more rope, go ahead and use it.

p.s. Sept 15, 2004 look closely at the date. And it was the thread and I will supply the link to anyone who wants to see it. But of course you wont' be able to now will you? Hmmm, look when you registered here, Sept 2004, what a coincidence

[mnmblu]

Sorry fellas for your having to put up with this guy, he is well... I think you are getting the picture.

[AGRO1]

Originally posted by mnmblu

I am still a member of Rennlist member in good standing how bout you?

LOL - funny part is you actually THINK that means something...

Originally posted by mnmblu

I started my own forum that, by the way, you were begging to get in, like a little kid with his wet nose pressed up against the window, but of course I would never approve someone like you. You even had the nerve to ask Keith to put in a good word on your behalf so that I would approve you, fat chance.

Wrong - Keith asked if I wanted to join and asked you. You advised him that I should send you an email requesting admission. Did you ever get such an email from me dip$hit? No, I didn't think so...now whose taking things out of context ?

And regarding the thread from Rennlist...you are a complete IDIOT. It was 09-15-2004, 08:48 PM
Here's the link smartguy...
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=158681&highlight=art

I'll save you some rope as I climb my way out.

[AGRO1]

I see you went back an edited your first post and added the CORRECT date, Alan. Too bad I didn't quote you to show everyone what lying scumbag you really are... Good luck with that.

[mnmblu]

Not what Keith said.

BTW, I could care less about Rennlist anyway but I know you did some begging, on your knees, to get back in. So, John being the good guy he is let you back in. How long did it take you to get banned again? Less than a week? Record time for the most hated person in the Porsche community.

I hardly ever go on Rennlist since I have the best people from there on my forum. I have chosen approx 200 of the cream for membership. It's a great fun place but you wil never know. Now tell me about how you don't or would never want in.

BTW, don't tone it down, no reason to use asterics in your profanity, keep showing everyone what a great guy you are.

Can't wait to read your next illustrating comment.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Agro1 - Just curious...what is with this major hard-on for him/his work. If you don't like it...don't buy it -why do you even care? As for his "self promoting"...who is going to promote his work if he doesn't?

Sounds an awful lot like you two have a history from Rennlist and you need to leave it over there. Oh, you can't 'cause you got banned for something. Pretty sure before anyone gets banned from a website they have to do something (or several somethings) that are pretty over the top. Wayne and I have had a PM exchange with a pretty sharp disagreement and I have'nt been banned yet. He and I (I think) agree to disagree on a non-Porsche related subject. Can't you do this too?
I'm pretty sure everyone here is already sick of this thread getting polluted with a bunch of 6th grade, name-calling, tough guy posturing.

Alan, I like your work and whether you sell thousands or never sell any?... I like it anyway. I hope you do well, good luck to you. Dan

[mnmblu]

Originally posted by AGRO1
I see you went back an edited your first post and added the CORRECT date, Alan. Too bad I didn't quote you to show everyone what lying scumbag you really are... Good luck with that.

Yes, it is true. I changed 1994 to 2004. Made a mistake, wow, I must really be stupid and that of course makes me a liar too.

[mnmblu]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
Agro1 - Just curious...what is with this major hard-on for him/his work. If you don't like it...don't buy it -why do you even care? As for his "self promoting"...who is going to promote his work if he doesn't?

Sounds an awful lot like you two have a history from Rennlist and you need to leave it over there. Oh, you can't 'cause you got banned for something. Pretty sure before anyone gets banned from a website they have to do something (or several somethings) that are pretty over the top. Wayne and I have had a PM exchange with a pretty sharp disagreement and I have'nt been banned yet. He and I (I think) agree to disagree on a non-Porsche related subject. Can't you do this too?
I'm pretty sure everyone here is already sick of this thread getting polluted with a bunch of 6th grade, name-calling, tough guy posturing.

Alan, I like your work and whether you sell thousands or never sell any?... I like it anyway. I hope you do well, good luck to you. Dan

Dan,

Thanks so much for your comments, I really appreciate it and couldn't agree with you more about polluting this thread. I am really sorry for you guys to have to read this stuff. I just thought wanted to expose Agro for what he is so you will all know about him here. My suggestion is to put him on ignore as did so many on Rennlist.

I am here to share with you guys not to argue with a troll. I love my work and get great satisfaciton when others like it too. Sure, you can't please everyone, I know that and I am not trying to. If I please myself, in the end that's all that matters.

Anyway, thanks to all you guys that have made nice comments and given support, I really appreciate it. We all love Porsches and like to look at images of them, eh?

[AGRO1]

Dan - Why do I care ? I dunno, maybe I just don't like seeing Alan pawn his unoriginal crap off on guys like you who consider taking a photo, making an abortion out of it by blowing the colors up in Photoshop, and then call that art.
It's laughable...

And Alan, I would NEVER participate in your bbs group of morons even if you PAID ME. Like I said before, that's the reason why I've NEVER requested admission. The fact that you think otherwise is proof that you really think too highly of yourself.
No, going back and editing a post after you make a (stupid) mistake without indicating what you edited, only shows your intent to deceive the rest of the members here.
See, I don't try to make myself out to be something I'm not, unlike you...Good to see you're still the biggest ass kiss in town

[mnmblu]

Originally posted by AGRO1
Dan - Why do I care ? I dunno, maybe I just don't like seeing Alan pawn his unoriginal crap off on guys like you who consider taking a photo, making an abortion out of it by blowing the colors up in Photoshop, and then call that art.
It's laughable...

And Alan, I would NEVER participate in your bbs group of morons even if you PAID ME. Like I said before, that's the reason why I've NEVER requested admission. The fact that you think otherwise is proof that you really think too highly of yourself.
No, going back and editing a post after you make a (stupid) mistake without indicating what you edited, only shows your intent to deceive the rest of the members here.
See, I don't try to make myself out to be something I'm not, unlike you...Good to see you're still the biggest ass kiss in town

Oh Argo, you don't need anymore rope, You have already hung yourself but good.

[AGRO1]

Originally posted by mnmblu

I am here to share with you guys not to argue with a troll.

Then why do you keep posting ? I always find it amusing that idiots like you think everyone else will not see through your bull$hit comments, and apologies for "polluting this thread". But in the meantime, you do everything you possibly can to make sure everone likes you, and dislikes me becasue I speak my mind. Too bad really that pathetic people like you have only internet discussion forums to resort to for group approval.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Agro1 - For what it is worth, I don't know Alan. I've never met him, never bought from him and I have no immediate intention. But honestly and with no offense intended...you've got an anger issue, at least in regards to this man or his photos.

Take it from an older guy if you can - cool off, enjoy your Porsche and forget about these photos. They seem to bring a red mist up in front of your eyes. Best to you, Dan