Israel

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Taz's Master
Pat, was I describing Southerners who fought for the Union, or secessionists?

Following the linearity of your and my posts, the former. Certainly, you wouldn't try a childish parlor trick, now would you?

I didn't think so.

[Aurel]

Noah,

Your theories are certainly more cogent than mine, as they are based on lived experience, not outside opinion. I am curious to know if my theories are similar to your theories, so let us hear yours first. Asking a question did not imply I have a clear answer.

Aurel

[Moneyguy1]

Noah:

Very revealing article. THe more things change, the more they stay the same!!

That could have been written at a much later date.

[Aurel]

That is not an answer to my question. Providing me with a link for me to come up with the answer...Not interested in doing all the work. I don`t need a bbs for that.

Aurel

[Hawktel]

Ahh Mark Twain. Finally a southerner with something worth reading in this thread.

[84porsche]

Just a few questions.

Is anybody here of Palestinian decent, or has anybody asked a Palestinian that lives here what they think, how do they justify what is happening in the region?

Part of my family history extends into the Palestinian region, my grandfather lost every possession he owned and his business and they took the family on a bus into Jordan in 1948 with not even proof of birth records and the rest is history so to speak. My father immigrated in his 20s and built a life for himself and is a very proud American now as am I. I believe it is possible to move forward because at one point or another, every culture in history has been tormented, killed and put under some form of oppression.

We can spend all the time in the world trying to figure out what causes/caused the hatred and the problems but what would be an acceptable solution to both and who can stand up and implement the solution without violence and more killing.

Just my 0.02.

[coldstart]

84Porsche, I feel for your family and the Palestinians. I think that very few don't feel for their situation. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution or any temporary solution pending.

I believe that the Palestinians have suffered and continues to suffer from the worst leadership I have ever seen (with the exception of Mahmoud Abbas/Abu Mazen and he is still pretty bad). They have-- NO plan, NO direction, NO end goals. The politicians cannot even agree on what they want in a best case scenario agreement with Israel. This is why peace has no chance and why the Israelis have realized that bargaining with the Palestinian politicians (especially Hamas) is fruitless.

I also personally believe that neither the PLO/PA, Hamas or any other group actually wants peace. Otherwise, the Palestinian people might realize how incompetent their leadership is and oust them out of power as they have no infastructure or economy or any idea as to how remove themselves from the poverty cycle. The Palestinian people continue to get screwed over by their incompetent and bloodthirsty leadership.

Some of my best friends have been Palestinians and they all have been extremely bright, intelligent and friendly individuals. They all want peace, whether it be as part of Israel, two separate states (Israel and Palestine) or some combination thereof. Almost all of my Israeli friends share the same attitude (I lived there for about 6 months in Tel Aviv). However, from what I have seen and read, most Palestinians do not want peace, they want revenge and blood. It is an awful situation involving two great intelligent people.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by Aurel
That is not an answer to my question. Providing me with a link for me to come up with the answer...Not interested in doing all the work. I don`t need a bbs for that.

Aurel

That seems to be debat style around here from both sides. No synthsis or analysis of the ideas in the link, rather wholesale acceptance or endorsement via posting the link.

The article was interesting, if a laborious read. Clearly written in a different time when people had more time to digest the flowery prose.

[aap1966]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
I am beginning to think we are (worldwise) about where we were in the late 1930s...on the very edge of a worldwide cataclysm. The difference is the sticks (not stakes) are bigger...where one bomb can provide the same destructive force as all of the ordinance dropped on Europe in WWII.

How will the sides align themselves?

I've been thinking the same way past few years.
As to how the opposing forces will align...same way they did in the 1930's. The "anglosphere" (UK, USA, Australia) + Israel vs (what shall we call it? Let's say...) the "Crescent Axis". Question mark is Europe (?Eurarbia). Probably initially neutral, then my money is "old Europe" aligning against the Anglosphere.

Don't believe me? Let's talk again after terrorism ramps up another level. Sept 11 made 3000 casualties passe, wait till we get to 20, 30, 40,000 casualties. It'll happen. Just a matter of time.
I've got a 6y.o. and a 9y.o.--they'll see another Western European war in their lifetime.

[sand_man]

Originally posted by 84porsche
Just a few questions.

Is anybody here of Palestinian decent, or has anybody asked a Palestinian that lives here what they think, how do they justify what is happening in the region?

Part of my family history extends into the Palestinian region, my grandfather lost every possession he owned and his business and they took the family on a bus into Jordan in 1948 with not even proof of birth records and the rest is history so to speak. My father immigrated in his 20s and built a life for himself and is a very proud American now as am I. I believe it is possible to move forward because at one point or another, every culture in history has been tormented, killed and put under some form of oppression.

We can spend all the time in the world trying to figure out what causes/caused the hatred and the problems but what would be an acceptable solution to both and who can stand up and implement the solution without violence and more killing.

Just my 0.02.

I'm of Lebanese decent (actually Irish, German, and Lebanese). No, my user name, sand_man has nothing to do with my ethnic origins. My family moved from Beirut in the 20's. They came in through Windsor Canada, then settled in Akron, OH, and then finally Sarasota, FL in the 1940s. All of my family are Christians (Catholic).

I had to stop following Middle Eastern affairs many years ago. I find it all too troubling...from all sides.

I was once told by a Palestinian man that the most sacred thing a Palestinian family posseses is the key to their actual family home in what once was considered their country. I don't know from which war or conflict he was refering to, but the symbolism is representative of a family actually locking the door to their home, and fleeing for their very lives. The key, I'm told, signifies the posibility of a return to that home in a peacful unoccupied place...if ever there really was peace there. Take it with a grain of salt...there are two sides to every story...two sides of a coin...two sides...