Dear God - Page 2

Por_sha911 · Por_sha911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
Gods are allowed in schools. Think of it like a cell phone: they're allowed, but the school shouldn't be providing them, and the students (or teacher) shouldn't be using them in class.

Actually, its more like this: If anyone sees you with a cell phone you are thrown out of the school because of the so-called "separation of cell phone and state" that doesn't actually exist. Furthermore, anyone else can bring in a walkie-talkie, fire for smoke signals, Morse code, jungle drums, whatever. Just don't you dare use the J word.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
And we come full circle, back to the effect of the family unit. Where is the stay-at-home mom who, in the past was there to maintain control over junior?

You want God in the equation? That should be the parent's job as well. How many modern parents (bible belt excluded) show good example by regularly attending some organized religious institution?

What about a stay-at-home dad?

I'm not sure I'm reading the second paragraph right. I assume you mean for those that claim to be religious, are they setting a good example. You aren't suggesting that *everyone* should attend some organized religious institution, are you?

pwd72s · 10-21-2006, 06:54 PM

Now we're asking ourselves
why our children have no conscience,
why they don't know right from wrong,
and why it doesn't bother them to
kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

------------------
Undoubtedly,
if we thought about it long and hard enough,
we could figure it out.
I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"

The above the final lines from the email I did the cut and paste on. Bottom line...Government schools DO teach moral values. These are the values of secular humanism, situational ethics if you will. "Right" and "wrong" is not taught. Quite the opposite, they are taught that there is no right or wrong...parental values are undermined. Students are taught that they have "rights". Among those is the "right" to choose their own lifestyles. Of course, Mom & Dad are expected to pay for this. Parents DO pay...financially and emotionally.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

hogwash. Schools teach right and wrong as applicable and where they can. It is right to do your homework. It is wrong to cheat. It is right to politely ask questions. It is wrong to get into fights.

This rant imho is yet another example of not wanting to accept personal responsibility. If my kid grows up wrong, it is *my* fault, not the schools.

And I'll choose which Gods he learns about when he is young. And will encourage him to follow his own spiritual path rather than shove it down his throat like is done with many. The last thing I want is some yahoo at a public school imposing his/her "Christian" ethic/morals. Just like I don't want Islamic or even Buddhist morals imposed.

The secular world has a basic moral compass that is just fine. There are examples of secular, Christian, Islamic, etc people who fail to "walk the walk." Don't blame the orientation, blame the person.

Jim Richards · 10-21-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nostatic
The secular world has a basic moral compass that is just fine. There are examples of secular, Christian, Islamic, etc people who fail to "walk the walk." Don't blame the orientation, blame the person.

Yep. It's way easier to blame everyone else but the kids' parents. Let's return society to personal responsibility. Anyway, you don't need religion in school, you need parents' involvement in their kids' lives. And helping of religion on the side, if you wish.

widgeon13 · 10-21-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911

WTF are madras schools?????

Is that a west coast thing??

I don't give a shlt what you think. I have raised children. Playing by my rules they turned out damn well.

The reason we have gangs and drugs is that some parents don't care, kids have no structure to their lives (in general). Parents want money and material things more than they want well behaved and respectful children. Money is part of the problem.

I know families that don't have much but they do work to instill good values in their children. The kids are happy, respectul, well desciplined and good students. It really has very little to do with money. It's the example that is set by the parents (both of them).

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by widgeon13
WTF are madras schools?????

Is that a west coast thing??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrassa

Moneyguy1 · 10-21-2006, 08:54 PM

nostatic:

Heavens, no. Regardless of whether a family is allied with an organized religion is of no consequence. It is the moral compass that parents provide that is relevant. Consistant, fair and predictable. The mention of God was intended for those who truly think this is a requirement, which is a question I am not qualified to answer. I merely meant to point out that religious training is the responsibility of the family, not the government or the school system.

As for the stay at home comment, whether it is mom or dad, or in a pinch a live in grandparent, it is the presence that is important; an available authority figure there when needed.

Hope that clears it up.

pwd72s · 10-21-2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
nostatic:

Heavens, no. Regardless of whether a family is allied with an organized religion is of no consequence. It is the moral compass that parents provide that is relevant. Consistant, fair and predictable. The mention of God was intended for those who truly think this is a requirement, which is a question I am not qualified to answer. I merely meant to point out that religious training is the responsibility of the family, not the government or the school system.

As for the stay at home comment, whether it is mom or dad, or in a pinch a live in grandparent, it is the presence that is important; an available authority figure there when needed.

Hope that clears it up.

Exactly...so, when our daughter began spouting moral beliefs that Cindy & I disagreed with? They came from the government school. Not hogwash, nostatic...truth! We found that the public schools were not educating our daughter, they were indoctrinating her...to a political and moral side we did not like.
So, there were a LOT of deprogramming discussions...these sessions involved doing research on what the schools then called "values clarification"...lots of fun little mind games being played. These psychological exercises did anything BUT clarify...
just the opposite. They were designed to undermine the judeo christian ethic. They were also designed to undermine parental influence. Well, our deprogramming worked to some extent...she is now a twice married RN in a supervisory position. At least she can hold down a job & stay out of jail. Not all who have been exposed to this psychobabble can...

tabs · 10-21-2006, 09:21 PM

Hey PWD U forgot to mention Stockton in 91...when that whacko from Oregon stopped by a school with an assualt weapon.. I guess he couldn't find Cambria.... or got mad at a Black Audi....

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Maybe you had a particularly whack Oregon public school. Didn't happen to me in public school ( in the "insane" state of CA), didn't happen to any of my friends in public school, isn't happening to my son in public school.

But blame the school if you want...

I had some pretty serious bad times (5+ years worth). But I can point to my parents and myself for the blame, not my school.

pwd72s · 10-21-2006, 09:29 PM

Tabby, When I drove thru Stockton in '01, I was waiting for a slug from a low wall to be headed my way....BTW, I resigned from R Gruppe...you didn't know that?

tabs · 10-21-2006, 10:39 PM

PWD your 72 S is faster than any slug from a Low Wall....but at the time you were a proud bona fides #15 in the Gruppe...

tabs · 10-21-2006, 10:41 PM

OHHHHH MYYYYY...What is to become of the Gruppe without PWD and Herr Schmidt....

BTW what ever has become of CurtisAA....

livi · 10-22-2006, 03:36 AM

Some people would argue - where God is allowed the list is even longer.

widgeon13 · 10-22-2006, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrassa

Thanks for that in depth explanation, I thought you were talking about those old shirts I have upstairs from the 60's.

alf · 10-22-2006, 08:03 AM

It is not the school's responsibility to teach my children Morality, Virtues and Values. That is my FAMILY's responsibility to do so.

Want to allow religion in public school? Then you will have to have it all from Animism to Zionism. Want your kids to have a religious education? Send them to private school.

fastpat · 10-22-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
You're all for religion in schools because you're under the assumption that it will be your religion. What if it was decided that public schools would pimp religion, but it would be Islam? Would you be still be so insistent on school prayer?

Of course they wouldn't like that, see the controversy in CA a couple of years ago for a reaction to that issue.

The "prayer issue" is but one of the problems with publically (tax) funded schools with mandatory attendance, which began in the 1850's in, you guessed it, Massachusetts.

Parents should fund their schools themselves at the local or community level; that way if they agree to prayer in the school, they can have it.

Government (public) schools today are nothing but little sociofascist training camps run by statists. The should be closed and reopened as parent funded community schools.

fastpat · 10-22-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
So should we take "In God we Trust" off of our currency?

"In God We Trust" is on the currency in order to show that the people should trust God (or other supreme being or entity), but not trust the government.

That meaning has mostly been lost.

bt1211 · 10-22-2006, 10:19 AM

I'm saying a prayer right now.

You can say a prayer anywhere you like. What most people want is for others to hear them say a prayer.