CCW is better than a Court Order

[Rick Lee]

Jeff, we have the closest thing to your utopia in VA. All gun crimes have a 5 yr. mandatory minimum in addition to whatever charges usually come with the crime. VA has no parole. And it's customary here for a gun store, when a NICS comes up bad, to lock the doors and call the state police who then come to arrest the guy for even attempting to purchase when he's not allowed to do so.

[Tervuren]

Here is a comment I wrote when I was posting some pictures from a local car event.


This guy must value his Ferrari, I know some people feel nervous when they get in a car with such an obvious fire extingisher, thinking the owner expects it to blow up in flames any moment. Its like a lifeboat though, you hope you never need it, but it will save your car if somethingdoes happen.


All you have to do, is look around the forum and find pictures of a burned car. I've only seen two burned 944's out of all the 944's out there. One completely destroyed the car, the other is being rebuilt. A fire extinguisher can mean the life or death of a car if you catch the problem soon enough.

How high do you value your own life? In my case, given a choice of killing someone assaulting me, or me being shot, I'd choose the latter, I don't carry. I fully respect the right of others to choose the former. I know this world isn't everything, I'd rather someone else get a second chance then put them into eternity with guilt, hence my decision. That is the only reason, if I didn't have that reason, I'd be spending time at a range, and would be carrying a firearm.

just having one isn't enough - you've got to know how to use it, be familiar with it. If you have a gun "just in case", 'd recommend making practice with it in different situations a fairly regular thing. My brother is one of the top pistol shooters in the country. Find a local gun club, whatever, and get out there and shoot! Can be fun.

A gun is no guarantee. Most users reactions and instincts under pressure are far to bad. Even if you are unarmed, but mentally well trained and prepared, you can take a hand gun user down.

[red-beard]

Originally posted by Tervuren
Even if you are unarmed, but mentally well trained and prepared, you can take a hand gun user down.

And are you?

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by red-beard
And are you?

Me, I'm not. I know I'm very intimidating, and if I waved my arms and yelled as I shortened the distance, that I can shock someone who doesn't have trained instincts into inaction. As I said, I don't want to shoot anyone, but I believe we have the right to protect ourselves, and that the government should not try to deny it. If I chose to not exercise it, that should be my decision, not the government forcing it.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by red-beard
And are you?

A man carrying a knife, especially hidden, is more dangerous than a man with a gun.

With the correct training, either can be taken down. Just depends on your training and how far you are ready to go.

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
A man carrying a knife, especially hidden, is more dangerous than a man with a gun.

With the correct training, either can be taken down. Just depends on your training and how far you are ready to go.

I might be able to dig it up, but once I had a video camera out when a Pastor was discussing the rules of CCW use, and that the minimum distance was too far. He had a fairly athletic guy play the gun packing citizen, paced out the distance, then rushed. This is a sixty year old pastor. The man he charged never even reacted in the time frame to cover the pastor to cover 30 feet. He just went into shock from a man running and screaming at him.

[Joeaksa]

Believe that its called the 21 foot rule by the Police. Anyone within 21 feet of your location who is armed with a knife, and the will to use it, can get to you and harm you before you have time to get a gun out of the holster.

Remember that this is coming from the Police, and they of all people should be professional at clearing the weapon from its holster and being able to defend yourself or others, but this is from their data.

As you commented, most people just freeze up as they are not mentally ready to defend themselves.

[MRM]

Which is why being armed is not necessarily good tactics in self defense. The basic maxim of self defense is that any weapon you have might be taken used against you.

[azasadny]

Not only do you need a CCW, but you need to be mentally and physically prepared to use the weapon, if necessary and that's the real challenge. The bad guys always have the benefit of surprise and you can't always be on your guard, especially if you're at home, working in the garage, etc...

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally posted by MRM
Which is why being armed is not necessarily good tactics in self defense. The basic maxim of self defense is that any weapon you have might be taken used against you.

Uhhhhh huhhhh....... got it; no one should be armed because the bad guy might just take their weapon away. I guess I'm willing to take that chance.

Like any other endeavor, self defense is difficult to "learn" on one's own. Just being in possesion of a gun is not being "armed" by any means. Defending one's life, or that of your loved ones, will almost certainly be the most stressfull thing anyone ever does. To just assume everything will click, you will make all of the right moves, and respond confidently and decisively (just like in the movies) is very foolish. Most people will just piss their pants and really will wind up having their gun taken away.

Anyone concerned and realistic enough to perceive the need to provide for their own defense needs to do more than buy a gun. Training is readily available most anywhere. And not just bullseye shooting at some range; while that is valuable, it's not the end of the story. Get some self defense training as well. Much of it does not center about gun use, but rather the psychology and tactics of defending against violent, surprising, unsettling attack.

Having a gun is secondary to having the mind set. Like John Wayne told Ron Howard in The Shootist "I'm not any better than you; I'm just willing". There is a lot said in that glib little line. No hesitation, no question, just reaction when attacked. Most people can't do that. They are not willing. Dissbelief and hesitation is what the predators count on from us. An equally violent, startlingly aggressive response usually sends them running.

[Rick Lee]

And like Insp. Callahan once said, "A good man always knows his limitations." If you are uncomfortable CCW'ing, then you should not do it. And if you do CCW, then you should be a total expert with your carry piece. One of the reasons I never carry one of my 1911's is because I can't shoot either of them nearly as well as I can all of my SIG's.

[MRM]

Jeff, where exactly did I say no one should be armed? It's a trade off. That's what I said and that's what it is. Statistically a cell phone is better protection. That's what I carry. You want to carry a gun and can do it legally? More power to you. I doubt that many people carrying can meet the standard you set forth. I could but chose not to. Like I said, it's a trade off.

[targa911S]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
A man carrying a knife, especially hidden, is more dangerous than a man with a gun.

That's why I carry both.

My grandfather was a street cop all his life. He always said "fear a man who pulls a knife and knows how to use it, as he is not afraid of getting up close to you"

A lot to be said about that.

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by targa911S
That's why I carry both.

My grandfather was a street cop all his life. He always said "fear a man who pulls a knife and knows how to use it, as he is not afraid of getting up close to you"

A lot to be said about that.

You can also tell from the how they hold it - how skilled they are. If they grip it in their fist, they have little skill, and are relying on strength. A knife man will hold it between his fingers in a firm grip that gives him freedom to attack in multiple ways.

Knives are definitely scarier to me then hand guns. I DO NOT have the balance, knowledge or reflexes to face a skilled knife user. Against a hand gun I'd stand a better chance.

I almost always carry a knife with me, but I do a lot of things that require cutting. (I work in a small machine shop). Very frustrating when I get back from a flight and have taken my knifes off, and forgotten to put them back on before I go to work. I most definitely would not pull any my knives out in a fight, except perhaps to deny a fight occurring by scaring someone else.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally posted by MRM
Jeff, where exactly did I say no one should be armed? It's a trade off. That's what I said and that's what it is. Statistically a cell phone is better protection. That's what I carry. You want to carry a gun and can do it legally? More power to you. I doubt that many people carrying can meet the standard you set forth. I could but chose not to. Like I said, it's a trade off.

I was agreeing with you. And I still agree with you; almost no one that buys a gun for protection follows through with the training, so they probably are better off without one. Nothing worse than a completely befuddled guy fumbling with his gun in the face of an attacker.

I do find myself disagreeing vehemently with the "statistically a cell phone is better protection" argument. That is absurd in the context of the kind of defense we are discussing here; the surprise attack from some one bent on robbing and/or harming you and/or your loved ones. If you lump all crime into the database used to derive that statistic, I'm sure calling the authorities is the answer to most crime. We are talking one specific set of situations, however, where it is intuitively obvious that a phone ain't gonna help.

[targa911S]