education: how to fix it?

[nostatic]

OK...seems most everyone thinks that education is broken in the US. So how do we fix it? I assume that "vouchers" will be the first thing out of many keyboards, but how will that actually work?

I'll stay out of that part and offer some broader talking points:

Involve students in the creation and improvement of learning materials. We learn by doing. We learn even better by creating. We learn best by teaching. Digital technologies allow young kids to create media. Lower the barriers to that with an eye towards classroom materials. Have mentoring programs where older kids are involved in teaching younger kids.

Start foreign language education on day one. Doesn't matter that much which one...I'd argue for Mandarin since that is where the power base will be for the next chunk of years, but Hindi, Arabic, and Spanish are fine too. Studies have consistently shown that it is easier to learn a second language when you're young, and it gives you an advantage in other thought processes (not to mention the global workplace). While the world is learning English, they will continue to speak their native language.

Use technology to augment education and deliver content. Use the classroom experience for socialization, not lecture and rote learning. Horses for courses.

[the]

Better parenting/parents who take responsibility for their children's education.

Until that happens, to the extent the education system is broken in the US (I'm not sure I agree with that), nothing will help.

Most poorly performing students are poorly raised children. The school system never can be charged with raising children.

[Tobra]

Those are all great ideas, that would be killed by the CTA, except for the foreign language one. One of the biggest problems with education in this state is the impossible task of getting rid of bad teachers, and there are a lot of them.

I would say that forcing the parents to take an active role would be crucial. The things taught must be reinforced at home, and if the parents and teachers are not working together, well it won't be good

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by the
Better parenting/parents who take responsibility for their children's education.

Until that happens, to the extent the education system is broken in the US (I'm not sure I agree with that), nothing will help.

Most poorly performing students are poorly raised children. The school system never can be charged with raising children.

Ditto. Far too many parents are focused on making $$$ instead of raising their kids IMHO. Schools can never do this even if they are tasked with it, which it seems they have in many cases.

[Flatbutt1]

Here in jersey we spend between $6 and 7K per student and we still get told its not enough. I don't think money is the issue. I see European and Asian scientists come into mu organization all the time. So from the science and math perspective US kids can't keep up. To much vacation time? Too many extra curricular activities? It sure seems that the US is not as serious about education as ROW.

[id10t]

Stop the pampering "everyone wins" stuff, make a C mean the true average student and A an excellent/way above average again.

From what I've read, the Vietnam war was responsible for grade inflation, and funding, etc. is responsible for it now.

When every student in a "honors" English class makes an A (because they all wrote their essays themselves, etc) are they really above average and excelling, or just average?

When I graduated HS (1989), as long as a student showed up every day, stayed awake, and didn't distrupt class, they had a 60. One extra point on anything - a test, homework, quiz, etc - would be enough to make it a 60.00001 or whatever, and that was more than 60, so the teacher could give the student a D- and send 'em on...

Also, parents need to get better, and more involved. My wife and I are sliding into more debt than I'm comfy with, just so she doesn't have to work and can stay with our kids and raise them. Its costing me about 3k per year in CC debt, but we both think it is worth it, as do many of the other people who interact with either of our kids. I see both of my kids teachers every day at least once if not twice, and I (and the wife) try ot be involved in the daily schooling - volunteering for special events, field trips, etc.

[berettafan]

Originally posted by the
Better parenting/parents who take responsibility for their children's education.

Until that happens, to the extent the education system is broken in the US (I'm not sure I agree with that), nothing will help.

Most poorly performing students are poorly raised children. The school system never can be charged with raising children.

+1

And i will add that teachers and administrators need to be empowered to hold parents responsible and be supported when they do so.

[yellowline]

We need to figure out why kids slip after 4th grade. We rank with the best until about that point.

Good, qualified math teachers are worth more than gold, IMO. Same with textbooks that offer a broad number of worked examples, instead of inserting arguments for or against keeping the penny in currency.

Maybe rallying the country around the next great project is another solution. Who knows how many kids JFK and the space race inspired? We should be finding improvements- a high-speed cross-country maglev train or three, implementing modern nuke power, finding a replacement for fossil fuels. Find the next frontier, and encourage kids that they can and should chase it.

[arcsine]

Reintroduce the opportunity to fail.

[p911dad]

Our kids have done extremely well going to our local public upstate NY schools and all got into good colleges, etc. Most of our friends report similar experiences. Of course, we are spending north of $15,000. per pupil per year and then they all go to North Carolina with their fancy educations to get jobs! The schools aren't bad, but the economy is.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by nostatic
OK...seems most everyone thinks that education is broken in the US. So how do we fix it? I assume that "vouchers" will be the first thing out of many keyboards, but how will that actually work?

I'll stay out of that part and offer some broader talking points:

Involve students in the creation and improvement of learning materials. We learn by doing. We learn even better by creating. We learn best by teaching. Digital technologies allow young kids to create media. Lower the barriers to that with an eye towards classroom materials. Have mentoring programs where older kids are involved in teaching younger kids.

Start foreign language education on day one. Doesn't matter that much which one...I'd argue for Mandarin since that is where the power base will be for the next chunk of years, but Hindi, Arabic, and Spanish are fine too. Studies have consistently shown that it is easier to learn a second language when you're young, and it gives you an advantage in other thought processes (not to mention the global workplace). While the world is learning English, they will continue to speak their native language.

Use technology to augment education and deliver content. Use the classroom experience for socialization, not lecture and rote learning. Horses for courses.

I see...leave the one thing that WILL work off the table...sheesh!

[nostatic]

it's on the table. Tell me how it will work. The various implications.

[RickM]

Originally posted by Flatbutt1
Here in jersey we spend between $6 and 7K per student and we still get told its not enough. I don't think money is the issue.

$6 - $7k is the national average on spending. NJ spends more per student ($12k+ & $14K to $33k+ in poorer/smaller districts) than any other state. Of course these are averages. I'm sure some districts spend (tax) much more than others.

To date I'm very happy with the public school system as far as my 10 yo is concerned. The teacher/student ratio is very favorable and the teachers are creative, capable and dedicated.

That said, you get out of your kid what you put in. Many parents either view school as day care or the entity which is 100% responsible for their child's education.

[Jim Richards]

Export our kids to India or China. The secondary benefit is that they'll be co-located with all the jobs.

[arcsine]

I heard a report regarding a European country where each school is subject to survival-of-the-fittest rules. Parents have the right to place their child in whatever school they like and the school gets the money for that child. If the school does not perform well in educating the children, the child gets pulled as does the money. Enough students leave and the school goes bankrupt and closes. In this program, the teachers have a vested interest in the success of the children and the parents have options if the school is not performing up to par.

What is underlying this are dedicated and attentive parents that want a good education for their child not just wanted Little Johnny to pass regardless of his performance.

[RickM]

Originally posted by arcsine
I heard a report regarding a European country where each school is subject to survival-of-the-fittest rules. Parents have the right to place their child in whatever school they like and the school gets the money for that child. If the school does not perform well in educating the children, the child gets pulled as does the money. Enough students leave and the school goes bankrupt and closes. In this program, the teachers have a vested interest in the success of the children and the parents have options if the school is not performing up to par.

What is underlying this are dedicated and attentive parents that want a good education for their child not just wanted Little Johnny to pass regardless of his performance.

....and this is where kids in poorer areas suffer.

[nostatic]

That is a problem with vouchers as far as I can tell. It will accelerate class distinctions and shift towards the extremes. If someone can tell me how that won't happen, I'm all eyes. It is in the best interest of the country to elevate the education level of all kids.

As for exporting them to China and India, our kids would not be happy. The Chinese school system requires considerably more time and effort than ours. Western kids who go over there get a rude awakening into what hard work really means. That being said, their system has weaknesses in that they pretty much beat much of the creativity out of them at a young age, and the pressure to perform on national tests is immense. There needs to be a balance...

[red-beard]

Concentrate on the basic subjects and forget "teaching" the soft crap.

[nostatic]

What "soft crap"? You mean like art and music?

[the]

Why do so many ignore the 800 lb elephant in the room?

The core of the problem isn't curriculum, funding, etc. etc.

The core of the problem is the students, and their parents.

A school that has 80% of its students coming from broken homes, where the mom is raising the kids, and the kids come home after school to an empty house, or go to friend's houses or other unsupervised activities until mom gets home at 6:00, where education is not a family priority, where the kids are raised at home by the TV set, is never going to do well in educating its kids.

Arguing about whether or not the schools in those areas should be teaching more art and music or more math and science is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.