Oh Darn! The Bill is Dead

[nostatic]

That part is. The rest of everything that is wrapped up in the situation isn't. Just like demonizing Islam. People blame the illegals for a bunch of ills that actually have complex causes. So you've got a bunch of illegal immigrants. You suddenly say, "no mas", find and deport them all. OK, you've spent a big chunk of change doing that. Has anything been done to stem the tide? And how now does the jobs that they left? It has been argued here that there or not sifficient numbers of able Americans to take up the slack. So do you put the economy in disarray to "solve" the problem?

That is the problem with black and white thinking...everything is inter-related. Black and white thinking led us into Iraq. And that is going just super at the moment...

[speeder]

If even half of the illegal entrants were deported or left on their own, the economic opportunities for those left in this country would be unbelievable. Unprecedented.

I would immediately start a gardening business in Los Angeles and buy a new 997 turbo within 6 months. Yes, I'm serious. It would be a dream come true. You could even drive it more than 20 mph on the freeway all the way to Anaheim. Like I said, a dream...


Sigh...

[GO DAWG GO]

Nostatic,

Every act of vengeance and reciprocity has complex causes, motivations and history. What you are stating is: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction (parallel) Your right! But when in your mind does it become unacceptable? Do you continue to let the neighborhood dog get in your trash cans and mess up your yard because its master is irresponsible and doesnt feed it? Do you shoot it? Or as a reasonable person (Tort) you scold the animal and send it home with a responsible pledge to the owner to take care of his animal? The next night the dog runs across the street and you run over it and damage your car. Is it Nostatics responsibility to repair your car at your expense and bury the dog. I think not... but the argument and contention is "it was hungry"!. Has it become our responsibility to feed it and to pay a vet bill for a dying dog? We could! Where does socialism begin and end? I am a humanitarian when I choose. Should I be mandated to pay and redistribute my wealth to someone else....Nostaic ,we see things through different lenses. You are a "good guy" and so am I. I just don't want to be forced to be! Where's the Taco's..I'll buy!

Bob

[Evans, Marv]

Day before yesterday I saw something sort of amazing. As I was going into the local post office, there were six people outside the door. They were all complaining about the government and the proposed "immigration" bill. None of them actually knew any of the others. One of them had a spanish (Mexican) accent and another had an accent I couldn't place. Basically they were all complaining about the government not representing the wishes of the people. The other thing was they were asking was what it was about the word "illegal" those in government didn't understand. I'd never seen anything like that before.

[nota]

by by
now get the INS to ramp up DEPORTATIONS
simple rule
if you donot speak english
go home

[nota]

Originally posted by nostatic
That part is. The rest of everything that is wrapped up in the situation isn't. Just like demonizing Islam. People blame the illegals for a bunch of ills that actually have complex causes. So you've got a bunch of illegal immigrants. You suddenly say, "no mas", find and deport them all. OK, you've spent a big chunk of change doing that. Has anything been done to stem the tide? And how now does the jobs that they left? It has been argued here that there or not sifficient numbers of able Americans to take up the slack. So do you put the economy in disarray to "solve" the problem?

That is the problem with black and white thinking...everything is inter-related. Black and white thinking led us into Iraq. And that is going just super at the moment...

yes BUT it sure would be nice
esp in miami
and wage rates would go way way up
supply and demand = less illegals more pay for citizens
now the CORPs may howl but the workers get a better wage
sure there will be local problems to those who have been breaking the LAWS hiring illegals
thats called JUSTICE

[Tobra]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
See how your Senators voted:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=354466

I know how my senators voted without looking. I wrote DiFi and Babs Boxer numerous times about this, I have no senator representing my interests. Unless you count Kay Bailey Hutchison because I used to live in Texas.

I like how they say, "Since this did not pass(over the objections of 3/4 of the people in the country) nothing will happen until 2008 with respect to immigration." guess they take the next 18 months off...

Originally posted by the
Why do you put the word "illegals" in quotes?

They are not that diverse in one respect, they are in this country illegally.

mmmm, King Taco

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Just because a citizen demands that those seeking entry to our country have (1) something to offer, (2) a willingness to assimilate, (3) a willingness to play by our rules once here and (4) entry LEGALLY doesn't make one a xenophobe.

Kick out the illegals. Period. All of them. The ones that have assimilated our language, culture and way of life should have an easy time of making it back in through legal channels. The ones that live in the shadows, refuse to adapt to our way of life and only associate with their own kind will be screened out. Good. I fail to see why that would be a bad thing for America or its citizens.

Politicians need to start growing some balls.

[The Gaijin]

The political will is not there to kick them all out, so that is just not going to happen. And to catagarize all who want to do do something about this serious problem to some sort of mean spirited nativist no-nothings (as Bush is doing) does not help.

There is room for compromise - that is the only way any of this will be solved. Any criminal record? Asta la vista. You want to come forward and register - give up every address, employer, phony SS number, all of your income information, be printed, photographed and every other bit of information about yourself before and since you got here? Well we will calculate your back taxes, figure out what you owe and consider you first. You want to work and save up and go home one day? That should be encouraged. You want to sponsor your parents and rest of the family? Sorry no. There are many sides to this issue. If it comes down to black or white, kick them all out or mass amnesty - I can tell you now which side is going to lose..

[sammyg2]

Look up arrogance in the dictionary, you will find a picture of Dianne feinstein.

I wrote to her a few weeks ago explaining my opinion on the 1st version of the immigration bill just in case she was interested in what one of the people she supposedly represents thinks.
Her response? She wrote back (or one of her flunkies more probably) and ARGUED with me.
The letter went on to explain that I was wrong, and why. What a stupid b!tch.
All the letter had to say was thank you for your imput, we will take it into consideration or something like that.
but to arugue with me and say my opinion is wrong?
Anyone, no make that EVERYONE who votes for her are idjuts and are either seriously mentally challenged or just so ignorant they don't know any better.
I gotta get out of California.
I actually look forward to the day (2016 if not earlier) when I retire and move my family out of this state and laugh as I look back and watch the immigrants take over and push out the stupid liberals who let them in.
Note to liberals, when that happens you will not be welcome in or near my home. You had your chance and blew it, I'm not going to give you another one.

[nostatic]

so ok...we kick them all out. Then there will be all these new job opportunities for Americans. And wages will miraculously rise.

yeah...magic!

How you guys think that's going to work? Are individuals going to do like the government and print their own money to cover the costs that they now have to bear?

There is no free lunch. We as a country have been enjyoing the benefit of cheap labor for quite some time. We are addicted to buying cheap crap from Walmart (overseas labor) getting food and services relatively inexpensivly (local labor). I for one do not believe the calculations that indicate kicking them out will save us money. But I do think it is a problem we need to address (by fining the businesses). However I also believe that there will be financial implications for people...and I doubt that john q. public wants to give up cheap. People say they want to fix the problem until it costs them money.

[GO DAWG GO]

Fellas,

We need to get on our representitives to secure the borders and stop the continuous flow now! Build and patrol the fence. Millions are probably preparing to enter because there is a threat they may not be able in the future.

A representative government still works...Call and apply the pressure on them..

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by nostatic
The Center for Immigration Studies. Well, if they have a web site and publish stuff, it must be the truth, right?

Funny, but there is no mention of their board, no links to the cvs of their director or other writers, and very little information in general.

Hey, I think I'll open up a "non-partisan think tank" and publish whatever I believe too. It's fun...we should all do it!

I'll vouch for them, since they are a longtime client of mine, I know everyone there and regularly deal with their studies, press releases and media events. Their two top researchers, Steve Camrota and Mark Krikorian, are on tv weekly, either on 60 Min., CNN, Fox, MSNBC, testifying on the Hill, in the papers. They are no fly-by-night operation. And I personally think their reports are very well written and non-partisan. You don't see anything other than books and government reports in their lobby when you go to their HQ. It's not like they have all kinds of bumper stickers and banners there.

[KFC911]

Originally posted by sammyg2
...I gotta get out of California.
I actually look forward to the day (2016 if not earlier) when I retire and move my family out of this state and laugh as I look back and watch the immigrants take over and push out the stupid liberals who let them in.
Note to liberals, when that happens you will not be welcome in or near my home. You had your chance and blew it, I'm not going to give you another one.

You know that when you relocate, that YOU'RE going to be the liberal don't ya? (...if you tell anyone that you're from CA)

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Feinstein (and Boxter) are an embarrassment to this state. I yearn for the day we get some semi-intelligent representation to change the image of this great state - we're not all a bunch of spineless, pansy liberal queers from San Francisco you know. . .

[GO DAWG GO]

Porsche-O-Phile,

You crack me up...seriously...+1. Did you read Sammy's posts, he fricken HATES those insipid, arrogant libs in Sacramento too? I wonder if Ted Kennedy had a drink last night with John McCain. I could envision those two having a Brandy on the promenade deck of the Titanic with there top hats on...

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by nostatic
so ok...we kick them all out. Then there will be all these new job opportunities for Americans. And wages will miraculously rise.

yeah...magic!

How you guys think that's going to work? Are individuals going to do like the government and print their own money to cover the costs that they now have to bear?

There is no free lunch. We as a country have been enjyoing the benefit of cheap labor for quite some time. We are addicted to buying cheap crap from Walmart (overseas labor) getting food and services relatively inexpensivly (local labor). I for one do not believe the calculations that indicate kicking them out will save us money. But I do think it is a problem we need to address (by fining the businesses). However I also believe that there will be financial implications for people...and I doubt that john q. public wants to give up cheap. People say they want to fix the problem until it costs them money.

There are plenty of homeless & people on welfare, just step up the loitering laws (like Disney is doing) close down the homeless camps and there is your workers. Start fining people who give to the panhandlers on the corners and aggressively put a stop to that so they have no other choice than to work

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
I'll vouch for them

So RL, who's gonna vouch for you?

[Tobra]

Originally posted by nostatic
i think the hospital closings are more about uninsured patients and health care costs rather than "illegal" status of the people coming through the doors.

Tech lives in Los Angeles...

the illegal aliens don't have insurance and are intructed by the Mexican govt how to get free care at the ER, and to have their children in the US so they are eligible for "free" healthcare. The ER is used as a primary care physician as they cannot be turned away by law, and they can't be asked to pay prior to treatment

You are right, there is no free lunch. Someone pays. If you have someone paying in nothing, or very little, and using say, $10,000 worth of services for the education of kids, free healthcare of kids and various other services and entitlements, that money comes from somewhere, and it ain't Narnia.

[speeder]

There was a column pasted in another thread that basically said, "the only thing that both sides claim to agree on is better border security, so why not go ahead and implement that now while we argue about amnesty?"

Could not agree more. We do not need any new laws to enforce our borders now. The problem with granting legal status to illegals here now is not just them, but the millions of Mexicans who will flood over the border to line up for the next one. This is truly the last chance to confront the problem, and frankly I am surprised (and proud) that there is still enough common sense and people willing to got off the couch to kill the current legislation. If this had passed, it would be guaranteed that no legislation would ever be possible in the U.S.A. that offended the special interest of Mexican illegals and their supporters. I do not call them "illegal immigrants" because they are not immigrants. Immigration is a legal process. Their very presence in this country is illegal, never mind which other laws were broken entering and staying here. That's not my opinion, it's simply a fact.

I've heard every BS argument from the illegal lobby, and all of them are lies. "We can't deport them/as long as the jobs are here they will come/an orange will be $10/fence won't work/doing jobs Americans don't want/etc. ad nauseam...

The simple fact is that they are here because of a corrupt system both in Mexico and here that allows any and everyone to just walk over the border and have rights and services in this country+ earn a massive amount of $$ by their national standard. Mexico is a very corrupt and poor country and we are a very corrupt and rich country.

I have been in parts of the country this summer that are not yet over-run w/ illegals and regular old Americans are still doing every job that supposedly only Mexicans will do in CA. Gardening, (a very lucrative racket), bussing tables, short-order cooks, valet parking, etc., etc...

Lastly, we definitely have room in this country for immigrants, including from Latin America. There is a marked difference between the type of people who will go through the red tape to come here legally and many illegals, though. I bought some Mobil 1 from the FLAPS here today and had a nice conversation in Spanish and English w/ the guy behind the counter. He was a Mexican who has been in this country for ~20 years, (legally or not I don't know), spoke flawless english and seemed like a person of excellent character. In my perfect world, he could stay here but the problem is that with an open border we also get a lot of absolutely horrible people. Lots of them, breeding gang members and brainless murderers, etc...

Do we have our own people like that? Of course we do. That's why we don't need any more of them. With legal immigration, we get to only let in screened people, and good Mexicans (or any other group) will become good Americans. We need to enforce our borders and customs and immigration law now. End of story.