Dad: Blackwater blew up son's and wife's 'skulls'

[azasadny]

Originally Posted by on-ramp

so who turned it into a $hit-hole ?

The Iraqis did. It was a shi*hole before we got there and it will be one 50 years from now.

[on-ramp]

Originally Posted by tobster1911

It was such a paradise before we went in.....

ARE YOU CRAZY???

Iraq was a peaceful country before the invasion. no war, no suicide bombings, the people could walk the streets without suffering or the threat of being blown or shot at, no bombs falling om=n their homes. yeah, it was under control by the dictator, but hey, so are hundreds of other countries.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by azasadny

The Iraqis did. It was a shi*hole before we got there and it will be one 50 years from now.

was there a civil war going on before the invasion?
was it as bad , so lawless as it is now?

sure Sadam was no girlscout
but they had some form of law and order, albeit not a just one
they had electricity that worked, hospitals that worked
no bombs exploding in the market place
instead of 2 foreign groups fighting for a piece
they only had to worry about one bunch of hoodlems

it was if anything, more predictable to survive for the average Iraqi

sure , it was no paradise, but it obviously was possible to get worse, and it has gotten worse for them. If it wasn't so dangerous down there, there would be no need for the likes of BW providing security for the VIP's, in Sadam's days, at least the governement had the means to provide that security, in whatever form it was.

i said it in another thread
sure it was a ****hole, but it was a contained ****hole.
they should have named the invasion "Operation Pandora's Box" instead of whatever fancy optimistic name they gave it.

[Racerbvd]

If the vehicle gets too close they shoot it, meaning the people inside.

Well, better than being blown up with a car bomb, and since they have been known to do that, and the iraqies know this is a threat and know better than to approach in such a fashion.

how you would like it if they did it in your area, where you drive your car

Not going to happen, we don't have car bombers in my area, like in Iraq. Do you have car bombers in your area???

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

How about we take up a collection to have Blackwater visit mor-on ramp's moble home park? I'm in for $100.

Put me in for $100.

Can someone pls turn off Off Ramp's computer before he self destructs? The boy is going more and more downhill by the day!

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by on-ramp

ARE YOU CRAZY???

Iraq was a peaceful country before the invasion. no war, no suicide bombings, the people could walk the streets without suffering or the threat of being blown or shot at, no bombs falling om=n their homes. yeah, it was under control by the dictator, but hey, so are hundreds of other countries.

What are you smoking son? How many times have you been to Iraq? The Middle East? Out of America even? Have you ever met anyone who worked for Black Water? Ever met a contractor who worked in Iraq?

You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about... absolutely none.

Please, turn your oxygen back on before you expire.

[Superman]

One of the very most embarrassing bits of education this current "administration" seems to have gotten in recent years is the discovery that now, with Saddam gone, Al Queda has a new place to operate. And, conveniently, an enemy there to fight. In spite of propaganda to the contrary that was swallowed hook-line-and-sinker by some here, there was no love lost between Saddam and Al Queda. They hated each other. Because of their religion/ideological differences. And most of all because no dictator likes to share power. Al Queda violence in Iraq was dealt with harshly by Saddam. There wasn't any. He wouldn't tolerate it. But there is now. And......someone to blame for it.

Dubya's decision to invade Iraq was bin Laden's wettest dream come true. From the perspective of Al Queda's Director of Marketing, America's response could not have been more perfect.

[911boost]

+1 to what Joe said, which is basically what I said earlier in the thread. Arguing with these morons won't get us anywhere.

[on-ramp]

whatever Superman and svandamme said, +1

[Superman]

Blackwater is an example of our agenda for the Middle East. At least, I think that is how most Iraqis see it. If I were an Al Queda member, or an Iraqi politician or local leader, I would probably be inclined to promote this perception. Using guns to stomp out hate is.......impossible.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

For once, I agree with Supe. Iraq is a disaster on all fronts. It has alienated our allies, emboldened our enemies and knocked our international credibility into the toilet. Our military is weaker for this, stretched and overextended. We're running up insane debt to fund this idiocy.

I see very, very little to be optimistic about on this issue. There's very little to feel good about here.

[Rearden]

Originally Posted by Superman

One of the very most embarrassing bits of education this current "administration" seems to have gotten in recent years is the discovery that now, with Saddam gone, Al Queda has a new place to operate. And, conveniently, an enemy there to fight. In spite of propaganda to the contrary that was swallowed hook-line-and-sinker by some here, there was no love lost between Saddam and Al Queda. They hated each other. Because of their religion/ideological differences. And most of all because no dictator likes to share power. Al Queda violence in Iraq was dealt with harshly by Saddam. There wasn't any. He wouldn't tolerate it. But there is now. And......someone to blame for it.

Dubya's decision to invade Iraq was bin Laden's wettest dream come true. From the perspective of Al Queda's Director of Marketing, America's response could not have been more perfect.

Wrong on most counts.
AQ operated in Kurd territory, with Saddam's blessing.
AQI is losing support and efficacy by the month. The tide has turned.
AQ is losing in Iraq, fewer foreign fighters coming in to die. Not good for AQ PR.

Have you wondered why Iraq isn't in the news much lately? It's because things are going relatively well.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by Superman

Blackwater is an example of our agenda for the Middle East. At least, I think that is how most Iraqis see it. If I were an Al Queda member, or an Iraqi politician or local leader, I would probably be inclined to promote this perception. Using guns to stomp out hate is.......impossible.

We gunned the **** outta "hate" in WWII.

[Hugh R]

I gotta admit that I have a problem with this immunity thing for BW. American soldiers get courtmartialed for doing the same things that they do. BW are mercenaries, soldiers for hire, immune from prosecution.

[on-ramp]

Originally Posted by Rearden

Have you wondered why Iraq isn't in the news much lately? It's because things are going relatively well.

Iraq is on the news every single day. Our local news tells of fallen soldiers in our towns and cities every week.

It's on every person's mind. Things are going relatively well..
Right.

[tobster1911]

Originally Posted by on-ramp

ARE YOU CRAZY???

Iraq was a peaceful country before the invasion. no war, no suicide bombings, the people could walk the streets without suffering or the threat of being blown or shot at, no bombs falling om=n their homes. yeah, it was under control by the dictator, but hey, so are hundreds of other countries.

You have got to be joking. It is not possible for someone to be this dumb.

Sure it was "safer" for a select minority. And maybe there was less out in the open violence. But under it all there was blood running. You fancy doctor's son and wife would have just disappeared never to be heard from again. Then said doctor would not have had the balls to speak out or even been given the opportunity to do so if he wanted.

I would say it is a measure of the freedom they are starting to achieve that he can even voice his view on the situation. You think before that this would have even seen print? Not a chance.

control by the dictator, but hey, so are hundreds of other countries.

I do not think that word (dictator) means what you think it means....

[Tim Hancock]

It is probably a good thing that WWII guys are dying off now by the thousands, as the younger weak stomached generations of US citizens are probably too embarassing for them to be around. As wars go, this one pales in comparison to the amount of casualties suffered during WWII. Hell, there were more US deaths in single days than the whole 5yrs we have been in Iraq, civilian casualties are much lower too.

I am confident that had today's generation had to fight a REAL war like WWII, it would be over in 1 month and I would be typing this in German or Japanese.

Before you tell me to sign up, I voluntarily served in the Army in my youth so STFU in advance.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by on-ramp

Iraq is on the news every single day. Our local news tells of fallen soldiers in our towns and cities every week.

It's on every person's mind. Things are going relatively well..
Right.

Your sarcasm is duly noted. But the fact is, in some places, things could be going "relatively well."

But the agenda-minded media seems to not see fit to expose where those places where things could be going "realtively well" are. In short, carefully pick your poison.

[MRM]

Again, I supported the war and still support it. But anyone who thinks things are going relatively well in Iraq does not have any clue what is going on. The basic rule is that if the insurgent isn't losing he is winning. That's been the rule of counterinsurgency since the time of the Babylonians. The insurgents are not losing in Iraq. We went in with too few troops to keep the peace, we alienated the population, and created the insurgency by not being able to react firmly and promptly when the locals started testing our limits. We are now perceived as weak bullies. Bullies because of how badly we behave there, weak because we are helpless to shape events on the ground and are reacting to events dictated by grade school dropouts with roadside bombs.

We have avoided a frank assessment of the situation because anyone who says things aren't going well and we could try better tactics and strategy gets shouted down as unpatriotic and the left who doesn't support the war just wants the U.S. out, regardless of the consequences. As a result, we just keep muddling forward, pretending things are going well.

As time passes and we try to pretend we're accomplishing something because things quiet down from time to time, the insurents keep winning because they're not losing. No matter how well things go in any part of the country, we're not winning until the insurgents start losing. And they're not losing.

[on-ramp]

this "winning" or "losing" business is an oxymoron label. how do you define "winning" ?

If you get shot to death, like in this story, you've "lost". death is permanent.

there are no "winners" or "losers" in war. Only dead people on the street..

and politicians (who started it in the first place) safe in their million dollar homes, away from all the danger. they do not answer to nobody. no accountability whatsoever.

Only Saddam stands on the trap door for his crimes...