Rennlist has been sold.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by jsb944

I have always found their 944 section more informative and have gotten responses quicker to issues with my cars....responses and insight worth much more than the annual membership fee....

x2. 944 forum is way more active over there. The racing forum is great too. Real racers and lots of guys I know from the eats coast.

[yellowline]

One member asked John why he didn't return some calls and sell the boards to him. Here's a member who wanted to buy out from within. I wouldn't have cared less if this occurred. But I think it was sold to the highest bidder. I do think John's excuse of not being able to improve Rennlist from here is BS- it didn't need improvement.

One of the things that put John over the edge (IMO) was that he started a Haitian orphanage. It's 501c(3) and so forth, so I don't think it was a scam. He set a goal of $150,000 for Rennlisters to contribute to his oprhanage. He barely advertised this, and got 10% of what he wanted. He made a post that he was really unhappy with this, especially with all the mindless flame wars and chick threads dominating OT.

He had a point (the 928 guys alone raised $7000 for a race engine build- Rennlisters have traditionally been VERY generous), but didn't just step up and ask for money.

Supposedly this new company threw a bunch of ads on other boards they own, like Corvetteforums. My membership expires next month, time to evaluate what they do with the place.

[96740]

Originally Posted by kang

I think one of the things that generate antipathy towards Rennlist is that people are told that their membership goes to support the site, help buy servers, fast internet connections, etc. The owner always says that Rennlist was not his “real job” (he puts it in quotes too). He also states, over and over, that he is not generating a profit. The implication is that he is running Rennlist as a hobby, and that money comes out of his own pocket to run it. The implication is that it is running in the red.

The reality is that he probably makes 100’s of thousands of dollars. He probably pays himself and his wife a salary, so technically there is no “profit” in an accounting sense. I seriously doubt his “real job” amounted to much of anything. If I recall, his “real job” was a consultant, helping people with computer networks. You can say your “real job” is as a consultant and only work one day a year at it.

Like most people, I have no problems with someone coming up with a business and making a boatload of money off of it. The problem people have is that it was always implied that Rennlist was a money losing hobby. If he just called it a business (which it is, I think it is (was) incorporated) and said he made money on it, people wouldn’t have a problem with it. People do feel like they were tricked into paying memberships. Look at all the strife non-members get. The owner never made any serious efforts to contain that.

+1

[jsb944]

I think you guys had it wrong. I paid to "belong" as well as to keep out the flurry of adds that we might wind up with there now. I'd much rather pay than be forced to watch adds.

Paying also made for a slightly more trusting environment (with some obvious exceptions like the bozo who stole cars)....at least there was some financial commitment involved and not that it was opened to anyone who could sit down at the internet cafe and type.

I have no problem with the owners having made money...as I am certain that if you look at their entire investment (hours, sweat equity, etc) their compensation was fair...and they worked hard.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The 944 forum over there is a joke. It's reminds me of a clique of high school girls that all have to do/say the same things in order to be accepted. Dissenting opinions/experiences are not tolerated. I can't count the number of times it's turned into a suck-up/ass-kissing cheering session for one of the paying sponsors (probably to get brownie points with the mods). One person will post how so-and-so is so wonderful because they shipped their parts on time or the stuff actually performed as advertised (isn't this an expectation, not an "above-and-beyond" situation?) and 50 other people will pig pile on to parrot the same thing. It's laughable. Heaven forbid someone ever point out a shortcoming with a paying sponsor. The thread is locked/deleted and the user banned.

If one believes the (mis)information over there that gets passed around, you'll believe that:

1. A 944 timing belt will explode if you didn't tension it last week
2. An n/a transmission will explode automatically if you put more than 125 hp through it
3. The 951 is the greatest car of all time
4. It's somehow normal to sink $5,000 a year into a 20+ year old car worth $4,000 with a cracked dash and torn seats.
5. Etc etc etc. . .

There are occasionally nuggets of wisdom there, but you have to sift through a lot of silt in order to find them.

[Palum6o]

After this acquisition, is the site still going to charge a membership fee? I bet the suits are wondering what to do with all the subscribers, its really a marketing gold mine.

[the]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

The 944 forum over there is a joke.

That's not Rennlist's fault, though.

It would be almost impossible to have any highly active 944 forum that isn't a joke.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I suppose that's true, although the one here on Pelican is a bit more objective I've noticed. The technical discussion is a bit better also.

[schnellfahrer]

My membership expires in one month.
I´ve been a member to support Dunkle´s efforts.
No that it will be a full blown commercial project, i´m no longer interested in being a paying member.
I think a lot of RL members will do like me.

The quality of information has deteriorated the last couple of years, unfortunately.
They should delete the Off Topic forum completely and show zero tolerance on the tech bords.

[techweenie]

I know several people at Internet Brands. To me they are not a faceless corporation. They are making extraordinary efforts to preserve the communities they bought. In some cases, adding financial stability, server stability, etc. In most cases, where possible, they have the forum originator continuing to manage the forums on a compensated basis.

It only makes sense, otherwise what are they buying?

[BeerBurner]

I spend far more time over at Rennlist than I do here. Not because I think they're better or whatever, but because I started there first. Had I come here first, I'm sure it'd be completely different.

I'm a paying member and don't feel the least ripped off. If the forum goes down the tubes because of the sale then I will simply spend more time here than there. No biggie, life goes on. I've recieved enough technical and non-technical info, plus simple entertainment, to make it worth my $20/year.

I've never been one to chastise anyone for being a non-member and have actually gone against those who make it their mission to do so. Membership is a voluntary thing, and I don't think it's my place to coerce anyone in to doing it. (BTW, the local Porsche owner's forum I am on will change your title to a big, red "FREELOADER" after 200 posts if you haven't paid... I can imagine that many of you would freak over that!)

I do prefer the 944 forum there versus here. More information coming in at a quicker pace. Yeah, there's also a lot of banter, but that's ok because I like banter. One of the things I don't like about miata.net is that they don't allow banter, which, IMHO, takes away some of the fun.

BB.

[jsb944]

Wayne...thanks for the invite!

BeerBurner you and I (J Berk overthere) are on the same page...

I do hope it stays the same as I enjoy having two places to cruise for info.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by jsb944

I do hope it stays the same as I enjoy having two places to cruise for info.

As do I...the 964 board on Rennlist is fantastic.

That said, the parts service here is second to none.

[kycarguy 935]

In 1997 I was a part of PorscheFans that sold to PorscheList {around 1998} which became Rennlist.

I wish John and Jen D. all the best.

[Normy]

Originally Posted by kang

I think one of the things that generate antipathy towards Rennlist is that people are told that their membership goes to support the site, help buy servers, fast internet connections, etc. The owner always says that Rennlist was not his “real job” (he puts it in quotes too). He also states, over and over, that he is not generating a profit. The implication is that he is running Rennlist as a hobby, and that money comes out of his own pocket to run it. The implication is that it is running in the red.

The reality is that he probably makes 100’s of thousands of dollars. He probably pays himself and his wife a salary, so technically there is no “profit” in an accounting sense. I seriously doubt his “real job” amounted to much of anything. If I recall, his “real job” was a consultant, helping people with computer networks. You can say your “real job” is as a consultant and only work one day a year at it.

Like most people, I have no problems with someone coming up with a business and making a boatload of money off of it. The problem people have is that it was always implied that Rennlist was a money losing hobby. If he just called it a business (which it is, I think it is (was) incorporated) and said he made money on it, people wouldn’t have a problem with it. People do feel like they were tricked into paying memberships. Look at all the strife non-members get. The owner never made any serious efforts to contain that.

+1

I never had any problem with John making money off the site. What the hell? You start a business, put time and effort into it, and then you are expected...to just not make money off your efforts? Bah- crap. My problem with Rennlist doesn't involve John's income. My problem with Rennlist involves the money spent to run the site....or more specifically the lack thereof.

-In my opinion, the moderators at that site did nothing but cause trouble. Of course they did- they were probably volunteers, working without pay.

What's wrong with that?

Well, it is actually a great idea, since it keeps costs down, something a small business of course needs to do. The problem: Tell me, what type of "personality" wants to be a "cop" for free- ?

I'll tell you what type: one that simply enjoys power and nothing else. Also, people with zero interpersonal skills and NO TACT whatsoever! John employed these volunteer moderators to great savings, but the problem was that they ran ROUGHSHOD over the [paid-!] members of the site for the slightest discrepancy...while letting ridiculous posts go unchallenged. Over at Rennlist, I was constantly called "******" and other derogatory terms which questioned my sexual orientation and despite the fact that I complained several times, nothing was done. Hello?

OH holy hell! I am currently banned on Rennlist. Why? It started with me calling another poster...get this...

---Y'all sit down now...cuz' it's going to get real ugly here---

"an OLD IDIOT"



Yeah, pretty bad huh. Well, that's what you get with volunteers. And if they aren't volunteers, then either he wasn't willing to pay enough for DECENT moderators or he doesn't have any clue how to pick employees! In any case, the money spent on yearly dues was NOT being spent properly on the site in my opinion, and the only term I can use to describe John D's tutelage over the site is "mismanagement".

Remember those couple of days about a year and a half ago when John came home from a vacation, saw a bunch of complaints about posts....and then blew up? He shut the place down for a few days. The whole thing was shut off. I didn't do anything to cause that- I was away flying and didn't have a chance to post. But I couldn't post in any case. What were my dues dollars doing for me then? Nothing. Yeah, that's a great management style boy...I ought to try that with my airline some time, not show up for work and just tell them later "Sorry, I couldn't fly because I was pissed off".

Bah-! I rest my case. I'm glad he got out of the kitchen: It was obviously too hot and he couldn't handle it. Good ridance.

N!

[Dennis Kalma]

I was one of the founding members of Rennlist...note my number 990415-1004....and kicked in a small amount of cash to help make the move from Porschephiles to Rennlist...still have the original email traffic from that time, it started very well and sort of cruised into complacent middle-age over recent years.

I have mixed feelings, but generally am happy that John was able to make it work for so long and then turn it into some cash for himself. But I still miss the bit of "independence" that it had, even though it was getting a bit weaker over time anyway.

I am curious as to whether my lifetime membership will be honoured...we shall see?

Dennis

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

.... then I openly invite everyone on Rennlist to come and join the community here at Pelican. I personally intend to keep Pelican a great online community devoted to the cars that we all love to drive.

-Wayne

"Everyone" ? Thanks for this site Wayne!

[onewhippedpuppy]

If it's like many BBSs, you'll see far more ads as a non-paying member. If you pay, the amount of ads will diminish. I would guess they'll keep the current RL model, only allowing paid members to post on the classifieds, along with the other perks. That all seems logical.

Hopefully some of the knowledge from RL will migrate over here. The 944 BBS has good technical know-how, but you have to sift through a lot of BS to find it. Similar with the 993, 964, etc. Lets get the guys that spin wrenches over here, RL can keep the Rolex and rims crowd.

[turbocarrera]

I joined RL and Pelican at about the same time in spring 2001 and the tech info here was much better than RL, the only exception was the 930 specific info that I needed - now Pelican has a 930 forum. WHOOP!

My $20 RL membership lasted almost 7 years...

[Deschodt]

I don't get the anti-rennlist stuff either... Pelican sells stuff, rennlist did not, so how else were they going to finance their servers ? Besides, Jen and John are good people !

In terms of "Best of", it's never been clear cut. IMO:
Pelican has the best early 911 (say, till 89) forum, bar none. OT is about a tie with rennlist..
Rennlist has the best 993 forum.
Renntech has the best 996 site.
PPBB has the best boxster site.
356 registry is best at 356 matters (too bad it's not a forum, whole other issue)
912bbs.org is best at 912 issues...

Need I go on ? I'm a paying member where I need to be, I buy stuff from others as I need to as well... I've gotten my money's worth 20x over from all of the above !