Rennlist has been sold.

[the]

Originally Posted by cowtown

Your point being...?

I don't know if you're in business or what, but if you've ever told anyone about Pelican, you've done the same thing you cynically describe above. You've participated in the marketing plan. Loyal customers are worth money.

You feel tricked or taken advantage of - it must be the business-owner's fault, right? He forced you to use his site.

Have fun - I've said my piece.

You are reading sarcasm into my post, when there is none. My point is I think they did a great job profiting off the Internet. Lots have tried it, most have failed. From what I understand, they succeeded financially very, very well with it. Well done! My view of what they did isn't "cynical," it's just reality.

I personally don't feel tricked or taken advantage of at all. I've never been a part of any of the Rennlist cliques and have never paid a dime to them.

[kang]

Originally Posted by cowtown

I just don't get this antipathy toward Rennlist from some people here. The guy built a small business using a unique model, and has apparently been successful enough to sell it. I hope he made a good profit and was rewarded for the risk and hard work he put into his site. It's not like he tricked us into paying memberships.

You think Wayne's running this site from the goodness of his heart, just because you don't pay $17/year? No, he's trying to make a profit, just like Rennlist did. More power to them.

Geez...nothing is free, guys.

I think one of the things that generate antipathy towards Rennlist is that people are told that their membership goes to support the site, help buy servers, fast internet connections, etc. The owner always says that Rennlist was not his “real job” (he puts it in quotes too). He also states, over and over, that he is not generating a profit. The implication is that he is running Rennlist as a hobby, and that money comes out of his own pocket to run it. The implication is that it is running in the red.

The reality is that he probably makes 100’s of thousands of dollars. He probably pays himself and his wife a salary, so technically there is no “profit” in an accounting sense. I seriously doubt his “real job” amounted to much of anything. If I recall, his “real job” was a consultant, helping people with computer networks. You can say your “real job” is as a consultant and only work one day a year at it.

Like most people, I have no problems with someone coming up with a business and making a boatload of money off of it. The problem people have is that it was always implied that Rennlist was a money losing hobby. If he just called it a business (which it is, I think it is (was) incorporated) and said he made money on it, people wouldn’t have a problem with it. People do feel like they were tricked into paying memberships. Look at all the strife non-members get. The owner never made any serious efforts to contain that.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

The heavy-handed and biased moderation over there, blatant suck-ups to paying sponsors, vendor politics and drama totally killed my interest in it. Maybe this will represent a change in the M.O. over there. That'd be refreshing.

Amen to that. The tech data didn't make up for all of the BS.

[Eric 951]

Rennlist is still better than PP for 944/951 tech. Not sure about the other forums other than OT which is good for laughs.

I hope that Jon and Jenn made out on the sale. I think it would be great to be able to take something which you start as a hobby because of your love of it and be able to make money from it at some stage.

[Chuck Moreland]

I think the profit estimates are optimistic. how many paying subscribers? 1000? @ $20/head that's $20k. Add in sponsor revenue, maybe doubles that.

Servers and high speed connections take a good slice of that top line revenue.

Maybe my estimates are way off. Maybe I'm off by 2X or 3X, but I don't think I'm off by 10X or 20X

[jkarolyi]

One of my other favorite sites which is for commercial aviation enthusiasts, airliners.net was also sold from it's Swedish founder very recently to a group from Santa Monica, CA. This seems to be a big trend...wonder what these companies have in mind? Ad revenue?

[jbrinkley]

Chuck, there were more than 7500 people on the PorscheList back in the day
John also hosted pelican back then to.

needless to say there are way more than people think

[Chuck Moreland]

"Back in the day" was before he went subscription, and before all the other boards took the traffic; pelican, 6speedonline, 914club, boxsterpete, etc. Lot's of people here used to be rennlist regulars.

How many "paying" subscribers?

[jbrinkley]

wait, I just looked, its 57,000 registered

[jbrinkley]

don't know how many pay though

[Chuck Moreland]

"registered" I assume is everyone that has ever registered.

[jbrinkley]

doesn't really matter, I wouldn't send ib any money anyway. Instead I'll send the same check to rennwish.org instead

[kang]

Originally Posted by Chuck Moreland

I think the profit estimates are optimistic. how many paying subscribers? 1000? @ $20/head that's $20k. Add in sponsor revenue, maybe doubles that.

Servers and high speed connections take a good slice of that top line revenue.

Maybe my estimates are way off. Maybe I'm off by 2X or 3X, but I don't think I'm off by 10X or 20X

If half of the 57,000 registered sent $20 a year, that’s $570,000 a year. Heck, if even 10% of the 57,000 registered sent $20, that’d be $114,000 a year.

Sponsorship is substantially more expensive.

The guy is making a bundle, that’s for sure.

[jkarolyi]

Interesting that Internet Brands (who bought Rennlist) are based in El Segundo, CA...same town as our own Pelican Parts.

Perhaps this company is planning to use economies of scale (i.e. big server farms) to run these lists cheaper than the individuals who ran them before, and use the ad revenue/sponsorships to hopefully make a profit. I guess that makes some sense.

[dtw]

I registered years ago. Never paid a dime but can't read the forums. Every night at midnight I get some kinda Rennlist email digest. Have never opened it. Gets *****canned with the spam every day.

[johndglynn]

Originally Posted by Chuck Moreland

I think the profit estimates are optimistic. how many paying subscribers? 1000? @ $20/head that's $20k. Add in sponsor revenue, maybe doubles that.

Servers and high speed connections take a good slice of that top line revenue.

Maybe my estimates are way off. Maybe I'm off by 2X or 3X, but I don't think I'm off by 10X or 20X

I think you are probably on the money on paying subscribers Chuck. No way is or was he making half a mill or anything like it in my opinion - if it was mine and making that sort of moolah, it would either have been sold off when it started making $100k for a three-times multiple OR I would never have sold it.

I think people way overestimate the money that can potentially be made from an internet board and seriously underestimate the work involved and the parts of your life that suffer as a result of the bundles of time you have to stick into it if you want to keep it right. Looking after a measly 750 guys is HARD WORK, let alone the kind of numbers some boards claim to run.

I still say fair play to building it up and getting out to get some sanity back, but booo to unethical ads. If you are running a community, paid or not, you need to remember why you started it and who your real friends are. Just say no to the shysters!

[jsb944]

Been here and there for about the same amount of time, although most of my posting is there. I think the 1000 is low....I am a paid member there and have been for years...and I do not feel cheated. While I enjoy both boards, I have always found their 944 section more informative and have gotten responses quicker to issues with my cars....responses and insight worth much more than the annual membership fee....

I think what made it different than say this board is that there was a feeling of having actually joined something...almost like paying for it made it more important (I know...that's foolish!). I wish John and Jenn only the best and I am happy for them but I can't say I am happy about the sale....

[the]

I think the 993 forum is the biggest. The percentage of paying members v. "users" (love that label!) in that forum is surprisingly high. (You can see your status under your name). I'd say, conservatively, that 80% are paying members. Probably more like 90%.

[jsb944]

yeah...I thought I remembered seeing that there was some ridiculous amoutn of paying members...I think it's not far off to think that in the last few years there was several hundered thousand in revenue. Probably was still running at a loss when you consider the value of the amount of time spent managing it on top of the equipment, elect. ISP costs, etc.

[450knotOffice]

I enjoy reading through the racing forum and the 996 forum occasionally, but have I never paid and I never will.