wheel guns - Page 3

DasBoot · 03-23-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t951

That being said, I bought a 45ACP Revolver (S&W 625 I believe). I love it. The only thing that sucks is the moon clips.

Umm...there is a .45 "auto rim" round that does away with the moon clips.

RPKESQ · 03-23-2009, 11:08 AM

Nostatic,

There is much to consider here.The caliber choice seems to be .357 so now it is your intended use that is the most important consideration. Most Colts (Pythons, Diamondbacks, etc.) using the older 1890's lock-work design are smooth action guns, but much weaker for full power .357 loads. They will wear far quicker and loose thier timing much sooner than the S&W's.

Of course you can always shoot low power .357 rounds (this would require hand-loading) but an easier and less costly solution is to obtain a Ruger or S&W. Taurus builds some very strong revolvers too.

Unless appearance or collecting values are the top of your list, the Colts just do not warrant the cost and you will lose value by using them anyway.

A single action is a great gun to have, history and practicality in one package. I have never felt underarmed in civilian life with a single action. On the other hand a small .357 makes a great carry piece and you will not have to leave cartridge cases at the shooting scene! Look at the small 12+ oz. S&W .357 snub-nose.

For all those who think a S&W.500 would make a good home defense weapon, stop watching TV and movies for your firearm knowledge and obtain some real expertise. Why don't you try shooting a S&W .500 in a typical small space (like your living-room, hallway or bedroom) in the dark and without ear protection. Let me know how that worked out after you stop your ears from bleeding. Even a .357 is blinding and deafening inside.

The lack of practicality here is comical at best.

DasBoot · 03-23-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

For all those who think a S&W.500 would make a good home defense weapon, stop watching TV and movies for your firearm knowledge and obtain some real expertise. The lack of practicality here is comical at best.

Oh, I'm only purchasing the .454 Casull so in the chance I run across someone pointing a .44 magnum at me who then says "This is the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off", I can pull mine and say "No it ain't!"... (plus you never know when you'll have to stop a moving car by splitting the engine block). And then there's the mountain lion tracks in my driveway, too...

m21sniper · 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seahawk

What caliber would you recommend? I have never owned a "wheel gun".

Current pistols are a Ruger MK III, Belgium Browning 9M and a Kimber .45.

I had a 8 3/8" mag-na-ported Black hawk in .44 mag. Really nice piece.

What caliber you want depends on what you want to do with it.

About the .357 question you asked, when cops used to carry them they almost all had 4" barrels on them, so that would be your 'standard' size for a typical double action revolver.

From there just base it on your needs. If you want enhanced concealment, go shorter. If you want more range/accuracy/power- go longer. If you want a good compromise, the 4" length is pretty hard to beat.

Generally speaking .44 mag and up are considered to be poor choices for defensive purposes against humans, the two primary reasons being excessive recoil and excessive penetration. Mag safes would alleviate the 2nd problem, but not the first.

DasBoot · 03-23-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Generally speaking .44 mag and up are considered to be poor choices for defensive purposes against humans, the two primary reasons being excessive recoil and excessive penetration. Mag safes would alleviate the 2nd problem, but not the first.

Porting would solve the first "problem":

m21sniper · 11:45 AM

You can use whatever you want AFAIC, as there is no question a .50 cal revolver is better than nothing.

All i'm saying in a much nicer way than the guy you quoted (who is on my ignore list), is that no expert recommends these large hand cannons for defensive purposes.

It's also important to keep body size in mind. A big strapping lad like you can probably handle a .44 magnum's recoil much better than the average joe.

I use a 9mm Para personally, but i would also feel completely fine with .38 spl +P, .357 magnum, .357 sig, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. I would personally not use a .44 mag for defense, but again, i'm only 5' 7" and change.

Anyway, i didn't want the point brought up by the other poster to be lost because of his confrontational and condescending tone. The point he was so poorly attempting to convey is pretty much universally accepted gospel in "defensive circles".

But again, use what you want. Anything is better than nothing. If people insist on using such weapons i would hope that they'd at least have the good sense to use frangible ammo though. The over penetration potential of these big hunting revolvers is a very real consideration.

DasBoot · 03-23-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

All i'm saying in a much nicer way than the guy you quoted (who is on my ignore list), is that no expert recommends these large hand cannons for defensive purposes.

Oh, I know. I'm just

But, the mountain lion issue is genuine. I have a 500' walk to the road when taking out the trash. A .357 might just pizz 'em off.

RPKESQ · 03-23-2009, 11:50 AM

A .357 will easily handle a Mt. Lion. "Hunters" who tree them with dogs often use .22 rimfire magnums without problems.

KFC911 · 12:00 PM

I love my big bore revolvers as "fun guns", but imo they are all in distant second when compared to a .45 ACP for personal defense (or CC, which I don't). No ifs, ands, or buts, my .45 auto is much more controllable in terms of recoil (mine does have the heavier steel frame), firepower, etc. and it's not even close. Plus the stopping power is virtually up there with even the .44 mag, without the over-penetration issue. For revolvers, by far my favorite is the Diamondback 22lr. Granted, I shoot a fraction of what some folks do, but all of my pistols are as tight as the day I purchased them. I'd love to have a single action .45LC someday also...just because.

DasBoot · 03-23-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

A .357 will easily handle a Mt. Lion. "Hunters" who tree them with dogs often use .22 rimfire magnums without problems.

Not sure we're talking about the same cat...

m21sniper · 03-23-2009, 11:56 AM

Considering that if your round doesn't stop him you might very well die, i can understand wanting over-kill for use on big cats.

I would definitely err on the side of too large in that case.

A highly reliable .45 ACP with night sights and loaded with good, sturdily constructed 200gr JSP +P ammunition (i doubt they're commercially available so you'd probably have to hand load them) would probably be my first choice for 4 legged Cougars (For 2 legged cougars i have other "weaponry" that i employ.

).

Fortunately there are no mountain lions in Philly. All our predators here are of the 2 legged variety.

Jeff Higgins · 03-23-2009, 12:52 PM

I do love my Colts but, alas they are not the most durable guns out there. Definitely not a "first" or an "only" gun in any given genre (refering to revolvers here, not autos). They are, however, extremely pleasing aesthetically and romantically. The Peacemaker and Python are wonderful, just not for "every day using".

My older brother is a huge Python fan, where I prefer the Peacemaker. He used to keep a 6" blued Python loaded with 158 grain .357 mag's in his nightstand. Then, one day we found ourselves alone at a local indoor range. I turned off the lights, told him to take off the muffs, and fire a round. It wasn't pitch dark by any means, with light coming in through the windows from the store out front, so it simulated a almost dark hall or living room quite well. One shot was enough to convince him - he was essentially deaf and blind for several minutes. He now loads it with .38 Specials for home defense use.

And yes, the "little" .357 is extremely popular with cougar hunters. These animals tend to be rather easy to put down. No big heavy bones, no thick skulls, and a decidedly "nervous" disposition, or lack of fight when hit. I don't believe in the whole idea that one can "shock" an animal with enough velocity/expansion, but these guys do seem to give up easy. Surprisingly so. Guys like the smaller framed .357's for these because, quite frankly, anything else gets to be a real burden after a whole day of chasing dogs, who are chasing a cat, up and down mountain after mountain. No one I know that has actually used one ever had a bit of trouble.

RPKESQ · 03-23-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasBoot

Not sure we're talking about the same cat...

Yes, we are talking about the same cat. Cougars or Mt. Lions are not anywhere near the same as Jaguars, Leopards or African lions. They are the weakest and most easily killed by far, of all the world's big cats. Hardly a problem for a .357.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

I don't understand the concept of a .44mag or larger in a handgun for self defense. No way I could double tap that. If you want serious momentum, then 45-70 in a guide gun would be more viable imho.

Taking the comments to heart, I'm thinking this might be a reasonable way to go.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124992402

Sorry guys, I like blued guns...

Jim Richards · 03-23-2009, 01:23 PM

good choich

m21sniper · 03-23-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

And yes, the "little" .357 is extremely popular with cougar hunters. These animals tend to be rather easy to put down. No big heavy bones, no thick skulls, and a decidedly "nervous" disposition, or lack of fight when hit. I don't believe in the whole idea that one can "shock" an animal with enough velocity/expansion, but these guys do seem to give up easy. Surprisingly so. Guys like the smaller framed .357's for these because, quite frankly, anything else gets to be a real burden after a whole day of chasing dogs, who are chasing a cat, up and down mountain after mountain. No one I know that has actually used one ever had a bit of trouble.

What is the preferred bullet weight for .357s when hunting cougars?

PS: All that chasing is great exercise.

PSS: Nostatic, seems like a damn fine choice to me.

Seahawk · 03-23-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

Taking the comments to heart, I'm thinking this might be a reasonable way to go.

Thanks for the link...good luck with your bidding (against me)

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Go for it. There will always be another (and he won't shipt to CA). Plus I have to wait a bit as I just got my Browning a few weeks ago. We have this pesky 1-handgun-every-30-days limit here. Plus my budget is pretty hammered at the moment...

DasBoot · 03-23-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

We have this pesky 1-handgun-every-30-days limit here.

Gotta love it. The equivalent of being told "go to your room" by your parents....when you're 40.

OK. I'll shut up now.

tabs · 03-23-2009, 02:38 PM

Clink Clink Clunk...thats what ya get with a Ruger...

Before you decide ya better go work the actions..

And exactly how many rounds do ya have to put through a Python before it works loose? And if ya Target Shoot the 38 spl works just fine without stressing the pistol...it all goes bang...

And if that is a concern...then there is the Mdl 27 Smith...that pistol is stout enough to handle just about anything 357...heavy enough to provide a steady platform for target shooting. venerable is the word for that revolver...The Smith Mdl 28 or Highway Patrolman is a poor mans Mdl 27..

The companion would be the Smith Mdl 29 44 Mag...in which you can s shoot 44 Spls or even god forbid downloaded 44 mags the same as Dirty Harry did...tame as a puddy cat or as wild as Tiger...same can be said of the 357 guns...38's or mild 357's...

Then there are the Smith Mdl 24's 44 spl's, Smith mdl 25-2 in 45 Acp or the Smith Mdl 25-5 which is in 45 LC. and the Smith Mdl 57 in 41 mag.

All the Colt and Smith wheel gun tech dates from the turn of the last century. same with the SAA tech...oh and the Colt 1911 is from what date again? Or the Browning HP, Walther P-38 and PP from the 1930's

So for practical purposes any of them will be fine for what our Nostatus wants it for...Now if ya were back packing up in Alaska I would probably take a Ruger, cause I wouldn't care one whit if I lost the gun or dropped it in the dirt or dragged it behind the car.