Ranges? The cooking kind . . .

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by ruf-porsche

Or Gaggenau.

Mrs Ruf has a Miele gas cooktop and a Miele electric convection oven.
.

We have the Gaggenau cooktop with Miele ovens, and they work very, very well.

I'll try to post some pictures at some early opportunity.

But if you like German engineering, this is the way to go. It's an absolute pleasure (for example) to take a Miele stove apart and clean the thing. Everything is so beautifully made!

[Porsche_monkey]

I'm with Randy...

http://www.dacor.com/Our-Products/Ranges/Epicure-30-Dual-Fuel-Range.aspx

I had a Dacor dual fuel and liked it. My ex is till enjoying it.

[imcarthur]

My head is swirling already & I have just started to research. Some of the prices on those Euro stoves are obscene. I should have just traded the BMW for one.

The dual heat type I don't quite understand. Why would you want a gas cooktop & an electric oven? What is wrong with gas/gas. If I am going to pay for the gas hookup, I wanted to at least free up some of the fuse panel.

Ian

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

The dual heat type I don't quite understand. Why would you want a gas cooktop & an electric oven? What is wrong with gas/gas. If I am going to pay for the gas hookup, I wanted to at least free up some of the fuse panel.

Ian

Some people prefer electricity for running the oven because it is easier to regulate. Others claim using gas in an oven can impart a slight taste to the food (unlike when it's under a pot on a cook top).

I don't buy either of those arguments—but that's why some people go the dual route.

[Don Plumley]

A few careers ago I worked in the supply chain for appliance manufacturers, with about 90% of that actively working with ovens. The euro manufacturers certainly make a great product, as do the high-end domestics like Wolf, Dacor and DCS. I've forgotten more than I care to remember about the oven world.

Originally Posted by red-beard

Oh, and it was self cleaning! I've never seen a gas oven that was self cleaning, before. Worked great.

Any Gas oven with Electronic control could have self-cleaning. IIRC, GE did the first in the 80's.

The dual heat type I don't quite understand. Why would you want a gas cooktop & an electric oven? What is wrong with gas/gas. If I am going to pay for the gas hookup, I wanted to at least free up some of the fuse panel.

Some people believe that electric ovens have more uniform heat distribution (fewer hot spots in the cavity) than Gas. Bah. I can assure you there is no electric oven in a three-start kitchen. However, gas ovens do have safety issues (that's why there are flame sensors to make sure they are on and not just spewing gas), are more expensive to manufacture, and need more attention to venting. It's much easier to install an Electric oven so the trades prefer it.

Regarding manufacturers, although there has been significant turmoil in the industry since I left it, the engineers at Whirlpool consistently impressed me with the amount of energy they put into cooking performance. Red-Beard's experience notwithstanding, I will never buy an appliance from GE (or from Sears made by GE). I still bear scars from being a supplier to GE. Great Stock to own, but tough to be in their six-sigma supply chain with the threat of having your business pulled to a cheap competitor ever six months.

If you eat to live, get a glass panel cooktop. If you live to eat, Gas.

If you are going to get a premium brand oven (which I would), then stop reading. If you are going to get an oven simply to cook, you pretty much can buy near the bottom of the price range - typically the controller (which is used to characterize cooking performance) is designed for a whole series of models, with extra features, buttons, etc. just being "turned on" with a different control panel. 95% of people use very little of the extra control features of an oven, in fact there is still a strong market for ovens with a knob to set temperature (as opposed to a keypad), even if that knob is a potentiometer connected to a digital controller.

YMMV

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

Regarding manufacturers, although there has been significant turmoil in the industry since I left it, the engineers at Whirlpool consistently impressed me with the amount of energy they put into cooking performance. Red-Beard's experience notwithstanding, I will never buy an appliance from GE (or from Sears made by GE). I still bear scars from being a supplier to GE. Great Stock to own, but tough to be in their six-sigma supply chain with the threat of having your business pulled to a cheap competitor ever six months

No argument here. I worked for GE for 14 years. Being a supplier or an employee, it can be tough. I hated the way suppliers were treated.

But the product I had was good, and the price is good.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

If you are going to get a premium brand oven (which I would), then stop reading. If you are going to get an oven simply to cook, you pretty much can buy near the bottom of the price range - typically the controller (which is used to characterize cooking performance) is designed for a whole series of models, with extra features, buttons, etc. just being "turned on" with a different control panel. 95% of people use very little of the extra control features of an oven, in fact there is still a strong market for ovens with a knob to set temperature (as opposed to a keypad), even if that knob is a potentiometer connected to a digital controller.

YMMV

Thank you! I'm reading this thinking 2K for range? Dang you guys got some deep pockets!

[imcarthur]

I think you nailed it, Don. With the amount of cooking I do, a premium brand (and the scary price) might be the answer. I have decided on gas/gas. I have 'worked around' the flaws of the POS electric ranges long enough.

In Canada, Camco Inc. is the largest manufacturer, marketer and servicer of home appliances. Brands: GE, Hotpoint, Moffat and McClary as well as most house brands like Kenmore etc. I will be looking elsewhere.

The other big stumbling block is color. White has always been our chosen color to lighten the room & but stainless seems to rule so I'll have to see what my resident decorator has to say.

Ian

[futuresoptions]

Getting ready to go fishing, but thought I would chime in on this one... First, I am glad that you are getting rid of that flat top.... When we purchased this house and started remodeling it, the wife just had to have one of those new fangled flat top ranges / ovens... worst pieces of crap ever invented... I believe that they are designed for people that do not know how to cook, and that usually live off frozen dinners... That being said they do work, but the only way to actually cook a steak at our house now is outside on the grill... due to these flat top ranges having t-stats built in, you can not get the temps right to quickly sear a steak...

I would like to recommend the following to you.... Go to a restaurant supply wholesaler and pick up a 6 burner gas range / oven.... I went window shopping about 6 mos. ago or so and found brand new equipment such as this in the $1500. price range, and they are heavy duty, probably the last range / oven you would ever have to buy.... This is my goal when I come up with the cash... I have advised the wife that her desires will not come into play when it comes to the purchase of appliances in the future unless it is the color... I mean, when you can't make a descent shrimp scampi because the juices come out of the meat and start to boil... there is just something wrong... well, good luck and hope you find something that makes ya happy, I know since I am basically in the same shoes, that a spare tire with burning logs in it, would be more appreciated than a flat top.... Yuk!!!!

[RWebb]

overall, main thing to watch out for is "stylish" over-priced stuff that is hard to clean, hard to use.... and belongs in a museum not in a home or restaurant

#1 tip - buy something cheap from a failed restaurant

#2 tip - buy from restaurant supply store

#3 tip - buy from a good appliance only store where the people know what's up and can explain +/-'s to you

#4 tip - & persoanl bugaboo - get good ergonomics, not a bunch of fancy lights and digital displays

#5 tip - find an old gas stove and restore it - esp. for an older house

I got the 5 burner Dacor coooktop - it can go very low to simmer & very high for wok cooking (twin concentric burner heads do this) & has the dang knobs laid out so it is easy to figure out what does what

I got a Bosch elec. oven b/c it has real knobs that twist so is easy to set temperature.

good luck

[imcarthur]

You are right, Randy. Easy to clean is a HUGE must.

I really like this one:



Bertazzoni

But I suspect it might be a wee bit of a budget killer. But it does come in white.

Ian

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

You are right, Randy. Easy to clean is a HUGE must.

Then I'd make sure whatever you choose has sealed burners. Most mid/high-end units have them these days, but some don't.

Here are a few other brands to check out before pulling the trigger:

Blue Star
Five Star
Capital
Electrolux Pro

[Zeke]

When I said I'd go for convection, I assume that one can use it either way. I don't have one. I have a vintage Wolf range with a 36" single gas oven and an electric wall oven with a microwave on top. When that dies, I will buy an electric convection oven with a micro or combo micro on top. Wolf (now owned by Sub Zero) makes a convection gas oven with an infrared broiler.

I can't find any pics of the older (30 years) stoves, but mine is based on this chassis:



It's just the 3 foot portion on the right and it did come from the FD here in Long Beach. I refurbished it to black as it was gray. I had the 5 footer in a previous home, but had to leave it behind. Sad day.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by milt

Wolf (now owned by Sub Zero) makes a convection gas oven with an infrared broiler...

Wolf makes a great product. They are built like tanks, and have cast-iron frames as opposed to the typical stamped steel.

[Eric Coffey]

Here are a few others on fleabay thay may be worth watching:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260391267993
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400041425552
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250403769837
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260389699898
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270367936585
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150336959886
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220393746702

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

Wolf makes a great product. They are built like tanks, and have cast-iron frames as opposed to the typical stamped steel.

Mine is welded angle iron. As I said, it's vintage. 1976. My five footer was the same construction and was bought new in 1984. Now, the Challenger Series which was and still is Wolf's super big commercial cook line designs were different. In fact, I think the red on is a Challenger.

How 'bout this:

[jyl]

I have read bad things about the reliability of restaurant ranges and the availability of service for them. Also have read they may not be suitable for home use due to lack of insulation. No personal experience, this is some reading on foodie forums like chowhound.

Personally I think gas burners, six of them, and double ovens, with a really effective hood, is what to aim for. Electric cooktops are awful and the flat glass ones are a pain to clean because they show everything. A really high BTU burner for woking would be really nice. Consumer Reports has reliability data on ranges.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by syncroid

I couldn't believe it either. I remember she called me at work to tell me about it. I said "Sure honey, go ahead and bid on it." The starting bid was 2599.00. She bid a dollar more. No one else bid on it the entire 5 day auction! I thought one of two things were going to happen. 1.The bidding would go nuts at the last minute. 2. The seller would pull it at the last minute. Neither one happened and she got it for $2600. WOOT! The very next week, they advertised another one of the same model and it immediately went over $5000 in bidding. The stove was from a dealer out of Alabama. I don't recall the name. She got the hood off of Ebay too. That was a steal as well at $276.00 + shipping.

There's a co. down here that sell slightly dinged up DCS, viking, and such appliances for cheap. I can get a 48" DCS for around 4500-5500 bucks with a full factory warrantry. My problem is that most of my clients want the same appliances matching. Nuts.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by milt

When I said I'd go for convection, I assume that one can use it either way. I don't have one. I have a vintage Wolf range with a 36" single gas oven and an electric wall oven with a microwave on top. When that dies, I will buy an electric convection oven with a micro or combo micro on top. Wolf (now owned by Sub Zero) makes a convection gas oven with an infrared broiler.

I can't find any pics of the older (30 years) stoves, but mine is based on this chassis:



It's just the 3 foot portion on the right and it did come from the FD here in Long Beach. I refurbished it to black as it was gray. I had the 5 footer in a previous home, but had to leave it behind. Sad day.

You, my friend, have the "real" Wolf range. The new ones had a bit of a problem when they were redesigned to a updated look when sub Zero bought them. this is coming from my friends at Pacific Sales. I wanted one when I did the remod on my kitchen and they talked me out of it.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by jyl

I have read bad things about the reliability of restaurant ranges and the availability of service for them. Also have read they may not be suitable for home use due to lack of insulation. No personal experience, this is some reading on foodie forums like chowhound.

Personally I think gas burners, six of them, and double ovens, with a really effective hood, is what to aim for. Electric cooktops are awful and the flat glass ones are a pain to clean because they show everything. A really high BTU burner for woking would be really nice. Consumer Reports has reliability data on ranges.

Do not put a commerical range in a home. It creates too much heat and you run the risk of burning the cabinets around the unit. How are you going to vent all that heat? Burn the house down.