Chevy Volt - $40,000 - Thanks UAW - Page 4

jyl · jyl's Garage

For someone whose daily driving is up to 40 miles, the Volt will use zero gasoline. Not a drop. I know people who could conceivably never buy more than 10 gal of gasoline a year.

For some people, that is a lot cooler than a luxury nameplate, swoopy styling, etc. And unless Toyota is earlier with the plug-in Prius than it seems, there will be only one car in the US market that offers this (well, and the Leaf).

Not too moving for you, obviously, but you're not a Prius buyer either. You're far outside of the target market for the Volt, Prius, Leaf, etc.

regency · regency's Garage

sorry, nothing Detroit makes interests me. Nothing. Buying a Chevy on E-bay? what a waste of time, just a laugh.

Steve

pwd72s · 10-09-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regency

sorry, nothing Detroit makes interests me. Nothing. Buying a Chevy on E-bay? what a waste of time, just a laugh.

Steve

Wanna try to keep up with a Bullitt Mustang in your '73T over a twisty mountain pass?

kaisen · 10-09-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl

For someone whose daily driving is up to 40 miles, the Volt will use zero gasoline. Not a drop......And unless Toyota is earlier with the plug-in Prius than it seems, there will be only one car in the US market that offers this (well, and the Leaf).

The plug-in Prius has a 12.5 mile range without ICE, not 40.

The Leaf, however, is up to 100 miles. The difference, of course, is once you deplete the battery, that's it. After the 40 miles in the Volt (or 12.5 miles in the plug-in Prius) you can still drive around using gasoline.

kaisen · 10-09-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regency

sorry, nothing Detroit makes interests me. Nothing.

Steve

What new car did you buy last?

dd74 · 10-09-2009, 05:17 PM

Gosh, are we still talking about the Volt here?

Anyone see the new Car and Driver (I think it was C & D) that shows the hybrid-diesel Land Rover that gets 50 mpg? In a store near you in one year. List $38,000.

I'd volt...I mean bolt on over and get that product; particularly as it might still be part Ford.

kaisen · 10-09-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dd74

Anyone see the new Car and Driver (I think it was C & D) that shows the hybrid-diesel Land Rover that gets 50 mpg? In a store near you in one year. List $38,000.

I'd volt...I mean bolt on over and get that product; particularly as it might still be part Ford.

The Freelander 2 (known as LR2 here as Freelander was a huge flop) is available in Europe as the LR2 TD4_e manual. It's a 160hp 2.2L turbodiesel with a 6 speed manual transmission. It is the same platform as the 2010 Ford Escape, but the Hybrid system (if you can call it that) is NOT the same.

It is considered a micro-hybrid. The electric motor (which is <10 hp) is used only to re-start the engine in an effort to save fuel at stoplights. It shuts off only when you are stopped, foot on the clutch, and move the shifter to neutral. When you let off the clutch, the little electric motor instantly starts the engine and you're off. Intelligent Start-Stop. You all laughed at the idea when GM introduced it, what, four years ago?

You're right. The system returns 49+ mpg in European extra-urban routes, which would be about 43 mpg EPA highway. But it doesn't meet US emissions.

$38K? The cheapest no-option gas-powered LR2 starts at $36K here in the US. I don't think adding the diesel option and micro-hybrid will keep it at $38K.

Ford hasn't owned Land Rover in over a year, selling to Indian based Tata in 2008. But the platform was developed by Volvo/Ford.

I think you should buy one and let us know how it works out for you, okay?

jyl · jyl's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen

The plug-in Prius has a 12.5 mile range without ICE, not 40.

The Leaf, however, is up to 100 miles. The difference, of course, is once you deplete the battery, that's it. After the 40 miles in the Volt (or 12.5 miles in the plug-in Prius) you can still drive around using gasoline.

Is that 12.5 miles pretty definite about the eventual production plug-in Prius, or is that for the development versions that are running around?

If the production plug-in Prius only has 12.5 miles EV range, that will be disappointing. It implies the battery is relatively small, smaller than the plug-in conversions are using. So maybe the car will be more affordable, but won't do EV for all of anyone's daily drive (almost anyone). The Volt will be even more unique.

kaisen · 10-09-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl

Is that 12.5 miles pretty definite about the eventual production plug-in Prius, or is that for the development versions that are running around?

If the production plug-in Prius only has 12.5 miles EV range, that will be disappointing. It implies the battery is relatively small, smaller than the plug-in conversions are using. So maybe the car will be more affordable, but won't do EV for all of anyone's daily drive (almost anyone). The Volt will be even more unique.

Toyota Vehicles : 2010 Prius Plug-in Hybrid Debuts at Frankfurt Motor Show / Toyota

TORRANCE, Calif., September 9, 2009 - - The 2010 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid (PHV) Concept vehicle will make its world debut next week at the Frankfurt Motor Show.

Based on the third-generation Prius, the PHV Concept expands Toyota’s Hybrid Synergy Drive technology, utilizing first generation lithium-ion battery technology and enabling electric operation at higher speeds and longer distances than conventional hybrids. When fully charged, the vehicle is targeted to achieve an electric-only range of approximately 12 miles and will be capable of achieving highway speeds in electric-only mode. For longer distances, the PHV concept reverts to “hybrid mode” and operates like a regular Prius. This ability to utilize all-electric power for short trips or hybrid power for longer drives alleviates the issue of limited cruising range encountered with pure electric vehicles.

jyl · jyl's Garage

Sucky. I've always thought they should make the battery modular, so you can buy as much or as little electric range as you want. If your daily commute is 25 miles, no reason to carry or pay for 26 miles EV range. This would let one plug-in model be sold to a wider range of people.

dd74 · 10-09-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen

The Freelander 2 (known as LR2 here as Freelander was a huge flop) is available in Europe as the LR2 TD4_e manual. It's a 160hp 2.2L turbodiesel with a 6 speed manual transmission. It is the same platform as the 2010 Ford Escape, but the Hybrid system (if you can call it that) is NOT the same.

It is considered a micro-hybrid. The electric motor (which is <10 hp) is used only to re-start the engine in an effort to save fuel at stoplights. It shuts off only when you are stopped, foot on the clutch, and move the shifter to neutral. When you let off the clutch, the little electric motor instantly starts the engine and you're off. Intelligent Start-Stop. You all laughed at the idea when GM introduced it, what, four years ago?

You're right. The system returns 49+ mpg in European extra-urban routes, which would be about 43 mpg EPA highway. But it doesn't meet US emissions.

$38K? The cheapest no-option gas-powered LR2 starts at $36K here in the US. I don't think adding the diesel option and micro-hybrid will keep it at $38K.

Ford hasn't owned Land Rover in over a year, selling to Indian based Tata in 2008. But the platform was developed by Volvo/Ford.

I think you should buy one and let us know how it works out for you, okay?

There's enough information out there to suggest the LRX is all that the press says it is, at $38K.

Meanwhile if you have an issue with Tata, just know that they've been building Mercedes Benz models for a while. Good practice for Land Rover, wouldn't you say?

Also, the second paragraph suggests Tata is infusing only financial support to Land Rover and Jaguar. It seems as if most, if not everything will remain in Britain concerning both models.

A Notable Feature of the 2011 Land Rover LRX

Though some may find it odd that an Indian company should own the venerated Land Rover and Jaguar brands, Tata is a fast-growing, multifaceted international concern with big ambitions and deep pockets. Named for its founding family, Tata began in 1945 as a locomotive manufacturer, then added commercial-vehicle production for the India market in a 1954 joint venture with Germany’s Daimler-Benz. The first Tata-designed trucks didn’t roll out until 1977, however, and the company’s involvement with passenger cars came only in 1994, when it began local production of various Mercedes-Benz models. Yet just four years later, Tata introduced the first all-India passenger car, the aptly named Indica subcompact. More models soon followed. Fast forward to early 2008, when Tata made major news by unveiling the world’s cheapest car, the tiny Nano, conceived by CEO Ratan Tata to replace small motorcycles as affordable family transport for India and other emerging markets. Designed to sell for a scarcely believable $2500, the Nano has already attracted close scrutiny by major automakers as an exercise in low-cost engineering that could well change the global industry landscape.

Given this background, it’s no surprise that CEO Tata--who some see as a 21st century Henry Ford, ironically enough--is taking a respectful, hands-off approach to the new jewels in his corporate crown. Indeed, he has gone out of his way to reassure employees, investors, and the general public that Land Rover and Jaguar will remain as British as bulldogs, continuing to operate in England under existing managers, but with a level of financial support that Ford can no longer provide. So it’s business as usual and full speed ahead for future products like the LRX, at least for the near term--welcome news for Land Rover and Jaguar fans who had been fearing the worst.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 10-10-2009, 04:32 AM

is the Volt going to have batteries replaced at service stations, sort of like you would have an entire full gas tank replaced? Robotically-changed plug and play batteries. How far away are we to that scenario? or will it even happen?

jyl · jyl's Garage

The battery is not meant to be replaced. Obviously it can be, but not easily.

Jim Richards · 10-10-2009, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

is the Volt going to have batteries replaced at service stations, sort of like you would have an entire full gas tank replaced? Robotically-changed plug and play batteries. How far away are we to that scenario? or will it even happen?

If electric cars are a significant part of our personal transportation future, they will need to go to service station-replaceable battery packs, and to be an economical / practical way to "refuel," a standard for this will need to be adopted. If I was in the automotive industry, this would be one of my priorities.

Of course, satisfying our future transportation needs with electric cars is still a big if.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 10-10-2009, 06:49 AM

I agree it's a big IF, but as an entrepreneur, I see IF's as opportunities, and $.

When the EV1 came out, I wrote a quick, test business plan centered on replacing parking meters with charge stations and all that would go with that infrastructure. it was a fun exercise, before it's time then, still a little even now I think, but definitely a good opportunity.

john70t · 10-10-2009, 07:20 AM

Standardized plug and play battery packs(insert 1,2,3,etc) would have to be gubment mandated. There's no way the manufacturers would play ball.

jyl · jyl's Garage

What's complicated?

Subcompact cars use AAA
Compact and sports cars AA
Mid-size and cross-overs C
Full size pickup and SUV D
Armored fighting vehicles 9v

Wasn't that easy?

I think electric cars have to develop some more, to figure out what technologies (battery type, location, capacity, etc) actually works. Only then can you try standardize anything.

Jim Richards · 10-10-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john70t

Standardized plug and play battery packs(insert 1,2,3,etc) would have to be gubment mandated. There's no way the manufacturers would play ball.

John, there are a number of cases in the electronics industry where a standard is developed by the industry itself. No gov't help. This is in the companies' best interests, so, yeah, I think it could happen. That's if the electric car becomes accepted.

Shaun, I agree with your comment. It's all about opportunities.

john70t · 10-10-2009, 12:38 PM

Good points, I was thinking size, attachment, and connectors on both sides. Everything contained within could be changed later on.

Having those three factors standardized would allow quick swapability at gas stations using roll-around lift tables, and allow an electric F350 to use the same batteries as a Mini(only more).
OBD2 and universal scanners would be an analogy.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 10-12-2009, 05:55 AM

What would have to be standardized is the shape and attaching points of the battery to the car and the robot to the battery. Combined with an underground charging station, fresh batteries can be loaded to the surface and then plugged into a car. Tough part would be driving over a plug and play station within robot limits but perhaps something as simple as car wash guard rails and track would work all the way to (for future cars) the station taking over driving of your car as you enter. Someone that believes in battery technology must be working on this type of system.