928 and Panamera-

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Even a blind Al Pacino in "Scent of a Woman" picked a sexy Ferrari to drive. Just sayin'...

True, but there are some of us who need a 4 door from time to time for our jobs,

[McLovin]

True.

I know JR is very particular about his own car's appearances, so I know it appearance means a lot to him (as it does to any car nut).

Also, as an owner of a Ferrari 328, I'd venture to say JR values appearance over performance or driving experience, at least some of the time (all 3X8 owners - myself included - fit into that category. Those are cars that get by mostly on appearance).

I've seen several panameras now, there are a couple in my parking lot every day. I don't think they look better in person, at all. In fact, I think they look better in pictures, where the size is often hidden.

Most don't like the rear end, but I think the front is just as bad. So bulky, in person I always think Karl Malden when I see that bulbous nose on the panamera.

The interior, too. In person, I found it surprisingly cheap and gimmicky looking. It's no Jaguar or 7 Series or S Class interior as far as quality of materials, and looks, that's for sure.

[kaisen]

Byron - why the Greek subtitles??

[HHI944]

Have you seen the new Jag interiors Mclovin???? They look like friggin Kia's with leather.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Byron - why the Greek subtitles??

Only one I could find, and funny, the only local shop that actually can work on Ferraris is owned by a Greek guy.

[Geronimo '74]

Up until now, we only (mostly) have read about how ugly or beautiful everybody thinks it is.
Not too many people on this board have actually driven it.
Seems to me like the people that hate the looks are not even interested in how it actually drives because they would hate to have to admit that the car is not all bad....

I for one like the looks, even more in the flesh (metal...) than on pictures, and I'm pretty damn well effing sure that its driving characteristics are fantastic.
Other car makers have a new goal to reach.
All the reviews I've read up until now are the same, opinions on looks (outside) differ, opinions on how it drives do not. The latter are all positive!

[aigel]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

All he said was that up until now, we only (mostly) have read about how ugly or beautiful everybody thinks it is.

No - he said that the whole point of a car was how it drives. Read his post again.

I am sure this is a marvelous machine.

George

[Geronimo '74]

I read his post again.
True, that is what he said.
Previous post edited.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Back to what I've commented on before, the Panamera is competing against a number of cars that are not only equal in performance, but also better looking and sometimes significantly cheaper. I've had a number of cars that cause me to look back as I'm walking away, I think a Panamera would cause me to look back and wonder "WTF was I thinking".

A recent comparison I read chose the S65 AMG because it was more involving. A Mercedes more involving than a Porsche?! The 750i does luxury better, the Maserati Quattroporte is a 4 door Ferrari. Or you could get an M5, XFR, E65 AMG, XJR, or CTS-V and save $40k+. Hell, you could get TWO CTS-Vs for the price of one Panamera turbo, and the V is almost as quick. Imagine what you could do with a single CTS-V and a spare $60k.

Obviously I'm not in the market, hell I drive a $4k Land Cruiser as my DD. I'm sure Porsche will sell plenty of these things, especially to those who want to have the new Porshhhhhh. But I seriously wonder how much staying power an expensive ugly duckling will have compared to a lot of really superb, and attractive, competition.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by McLovin

True.

I know JR is very particular about his own car's appearances, so I know it appearance means a lot to him (as it does to any car nut).

Also, as an owner of a Ferrari 328, I'd venture to say JR values appearance over performance or driving experience, at least some of the time (all 3X8 owners - myself included - fit into that category. Those are cars that get by mostly on appearance).

Dead wrong, amigo...

That's not why I bought the 328. In fact, if I were to judge that era of Ferraris based upon looks, I would have bought an earlier 308 instead. There are many things about the looks of the 328 that I don't like. But I didn't by a 308, because I intended to drive the thing and a 328 is a much better car. I tried a 308 in the '70's and hated it. I tried a 308 QV in the 80's, with the same result. When Ferrari made the 328, I was happy. The 1400-odd changes between a 308QV and a 328 made enough of a difference.

I also bought a Testarossa, which most people don't like the looks of. It fulfilled a certain purpose for me at the time, in a way that the 328 didn't. Two different cars, two different purposes.

I also had an early Countach, which is an amazing car to gaze upon but I sold it, mainly becasue of the way it drove, at least on the roads that we have in the US and at the speeds we can get away with.

So, I'm more interested in the way something drives, than how it looks. The Panamera isn't a sports car. It's a big 4-door. It's not supposed to look swoopy, nor is it supposed to be small. Would I pick it over an S-class, or a big BMW? Every time, no questions.

Would I rather have an Aston? If looks were the only criteria, sure. BUT, if I actually wanted to haul adults in the back, the Aston wouldn't be as good a choice. If I only need to haul one other person, I wouldn't buy either one of them.

The Panamera has a purpose.

JR

[rouxroux]

Originally Posted by legion

You should have rear-ended him.

Brilliant!

[javadog]

Originally Posted by aigel

Sure, just like the fat chick. It doesn't matter how she looks like, as long as she performs? I don't think so, especially if you spend in excess of 100k (on the car that is) .

George

Well, let's see... what do I own that people might find ugly? How about a 928? Seems relevant to this particular discussion. Got one of those and I enjoy the way it drives. Hmmm.... how about a 914? Lot's of controvery on the way those look, since they first made it into the public eye. How about an Audi quattro (ur-quattro).... not exactly the best-proportioned car ever made...

Getting my point yet?

JR

[941MXVET]

A Panamera owner parked in a fire lane, being a prick when you photoed his car...

Too many sterotypes, too little time...

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by javadog

Well, let's see... what do I own that people might find ugly? How about a 928? Seems relevant to this particular discussion. Got one of those and I enjoy the way it drives. Hmmm.... how about a 914? Lot's of controvery on the way those look, since they first made it into the public eye. How about an Audi quattro (ur-quattro).... not exactly the best-proportioned car ever made...

Getting my point yet?

JR

Most people didn't find the 928 ugly when it was new. Some find it that it hasn't aged particularly well - which is part of the reason they are dirt cheap today (compared to price when new). But I think there is a fairly large contingent that don't find them ugly.

914. Yeah, a lot don't find it beautiful. But that's always been the biggest problem with the 914. If it would have been a beautiful looking car, it's history would have been very different, IMO. Imagine an economical, simple, lightweight, relatively inexpensive, aircooled mid engined porsche - with the looks of a Dino 246 or a 904.

Clearly, it's a balance. Sure, a car has to have some performance, but looks are a big part of an enthusiast car for 99% of buyers and owners. (I leave the 1% for you). The car has to start your heart racing when you first open the garage, the visuals are a very important part of the ownership experience for most.

I don't think the panamera will have the success of the cayenne, mostly because of the looks. The cayenne is your very basic, inoffensive looking SUV that could easily be a VW, Audi, Lexus, or any other.

As far as the other cars, I agree. Countach's drive like trucks - but since to a large majority of the population it's mostly about the looks, Countach's are still $100K. 308s, as you point out, aren't great driving cars, but their knock out looks keep their prices up.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by McLovin

I don't think the panamera will have the success of the cayenne, mostly because of the looks...

308s, as you point out, aren't great driving cars, but their knock out looks keep their prices up - why?

The Panamera will be successful but it may not sell as well as the Cayenne. Two reasons; the world economy is different today, than when the Cayenne was introduced and the potential market for the Cayenne is much larger.

The 308 still sells because of simple supply and demand. It's cheap, for a Ferrari. Most 308 buyers are buying their first Ferrari. If it was a $100k car, it wouldn't sell well, as the average 308 buyer doesn't have that kind of spare cash.

JR

[kaisen]

The Dino was un-loved for decades and now fetch 'collectable' prices. There will come a day when 3x8's do too.

I think the BB's are the next to appreciate significantly.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by kaisen

The Dino was un-loved for decades and now fetch 'collectable' prices.

They might have been unloved by purists/snobs, but regular enthusiasts like me loved the looks of that car, so what if it had a Fiat engine. Absolutely stunning when new, and just as pretty today - especially in fly yellow.. In fact, I think looks wise, I would rather have a Dino over a Lambo Muira - the little Ferrari has aged much better, IMHO.

[m21sniper]

308's are not helped by the fact that they're dogs. A 2010 Nissan Maxima SE would spank a Ferrari 308 at almost anything.

[wolf76]

To the OP, that is one beautiful 928. I for one actually prefer the early body style to the later ones. I have also seen the Panamera in person. I found the looks a little underwhelming but I can understand what Porsche is looking to accomplish. I am sure the performance is thrilling I was hoping the packaging was a little more aesthetically pleasing (to me anyway)



Chris

[KarlCarrera]

Let the beatings begin...

I liked the 928 when most purist's were screaming foul. The styling was way different, the engine in the front?? Look at that A**....!! OMFG it's ugly.

I have longed for a spirited ride in a 928. Never has happened, but for some reason I still really like it, especially certain flavors. It's different, and taken care of, it's amazing.

Due to a divorce when I was very young, I have been able to experience the best the Italians and Porsche has to offer. Actually pretty close upkeep, according to the men paying the bills. At the time, and comparing a 78-80 to a 78-80 I'd take the Porsche.

With the exception of the butt, I like the Panamera, no, it's not a sport's car in any sense of the word, but I'm bettin' it's amazing, and alot of exotic car makers are hoping it does poorly. Personally I hope it does great, and people recognize it for what it is.

Need to stop ( and accept my beatings) and have another Karl's Special, 3 shot's Crown w/ a splash, two is usually good :>)

Karl
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