Need me a Car

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

I just bought a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee - 2WD with leather - pretty inexpensive really going through carsdirect.com

After almost 3000 miles I am pretty impressed. I am getting around 19.3 mpg (mixed city and highway) it's very quiet, the bluetooth is excellent. Fit and finish is 100times better than anything else I've had experience with chrysler with...

With the savings I bought the extended warranty -

thx, Jeremy - I'll get the full on 4wd w/air lift yada yada if I get one.

Did you get the V-6 motor?

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by BSiple

Anything with a lot of ground clearance is going to give up driveabilty on the street. * * *

that is EXACTLY why I am interested in vehicles with an air suspension where you can alter the ride ht.

I am also worried about this being the first year for the new Jeep GC and first gen bugs that aren't worked out yet. CR shows pretty good (i.e. Toyota levels) of reliability and complaints for the last 2 years of these things, IIRC. A lease might be a thought, as I can just give it back to them if it has a lot of problems.

re Audi Allroads - I think I've eliminated them based on comments in the other thread on them.

Jeep takes pains to point out that their system is closed and does not have problems like an open air susp. system does. Not sure what Audi used.

[vash]

for your needs, it is difficult to not look long and hard at another subaru.

my wife's forester is unstoppable in the woods. there isnt a fireroad it cannot do. hardcore wheeling, maybe not.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by jyl

What are your other cars, and their roles?

Vanagon Westy - 2wd (unfortunately, I WISH I had a 4x4 Syncro Vanagon Westy!); it now gets used only for camping, but can be a daily driver; cannot go up into the snow for skiing

1973 911 hotrod - used for fun raw sports car driving (except it seems to always be in the garage getting fixed or modified)

That why I need a vehicle for winter. It needs at least the ability of the 8" gnd. clearance AWD Subaru off-hwy (not really off-road, but some really poor BLM/USFS/NWR two-track or whatever one wants to call it). I can rent a Jeep CJ type for nearby stuff that requires more than a Subaru can do. Cost goes way up if I drive a rental 1,000 miles then up into the boonies.

[RWebb]

Just got back from Volvo dealer and BMW dealer.

Volvo sales rep. knew nothing at all about the cars or even what they had on the lot - I did get a brochure from him tho... I bet those things won't have the gnd. clearance I need.

I dorve the BMW 328 xi or ix wagon. Not bad as far as sporty feel, but brakes are grabby (very touchy onset, maybe I can get used to it), steering felt heavy & the plastic fasci in the cabin looks & feel really cheap for a $42,000 automobile. Sale re. didn't know anything about gnd. clearance but did know some other info about the car.

I need to check out those Lexus RX things also.

I've had (leases) 2 Honda Pilots (which I figure are about as good as the Acura MDX) - they are the best compromise for the price out there but just cannot handle fire roads very well. I'd say they are about at the mobility level of an Outback but are larger (bad, since I no longer need to move sheet goods and have the Westy to camp in) and cost more.

I drove the new Outback a few months ago & the hesitation in the transmission (e-gas or some reason) drove me nuts. I'll take another look at them and the 6 cyl motors tho.

In other news, my credit union will give a 4.6% loan for a new Jeep GC. That is better than selling stock, as I expect my stocks will likely go up much more than that in the next 4 years. And (in an homage to Hugh) it lets me manage my tax bracket rates too.

[craigster59]

Just get an old Subaru project car and turn it into this...

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I need to check out those Lexus RX things also.

I've had (leases) 2 Honda Pilots (which I figure are about as good as the Acura MDX) - they are the best compromise for the price out there but just cannot handle fire roads very well. I'd say they are about at the mobility level of an Outback but are larger (bad, since I no longer need to move sheet goods and have the Westy to camp in) and cost more.

I drove the new Outback a few months ago & the hesitation in the transmission (e-gas or some reason) drove me nuts. I'll take another look at them and the 6 cyl motors tho.
.

It's not ONLY about ground clearance, you've also got to consider the ways in which the four wheel drive systems work.

The Lexus RX, Ford Escape, Honda Pilot, and many other CUVs are front-drive car-based unibody platforms that have an option to be all-wheel-drive. They are still front-drive biased and will transfer power to the rear only when they sense slip. And then it is still less than 50% of the power, although up to 95% of the torque.

The Subaru and Audi are all-wheel-drive but 50/50 biased. It makes a huge difference to its capabilities.

The Grand Cherokee, Touareg, and Cayenne (and other spinoffs) are also unibody (unlike most big SUVs) but rear-drive inherent and also 50/50 biased. Some have low range and part-time settings that Subarus and Audis do not.

A Grand Cherokee with Quadra-Lift (air suspension) and Off Road Group II has the ability to be 80% rear-drive with lowered suspension in Sport mode for better handling and sport dynamics. Or, by turning a dial, 50/50 locked with electronic rear limited slip (and even a low range for Rock mode) gives it incredible off-road capability.

Also, the underside is smooth and protected. It's not like the old Jeeps. Not much to hang up on:

[RWebb]

thx - I do put gnd. clearance as #2 in importance (after tire failure).

how would you rank the 4wd systems after the one on the Jeep GC?

[EarlyPorsche]

Oh that new Grand Cherokee is nice. Not only is it nice but it feels like a proper vehicle finally. It has the feel of something you'll hand down (the way Jeeps used to be). Even the V6 drives well, which never used to be the case with the V6 used in the 2005-2010 models. I wouldn't hesitate to jump into the 2011+ Grand Cherokee. Speaking with some techs I know also made me realize how reliable these things are...I was that they aren't seeing much if any additional work needed other than just maintenance.

[tcar]

You need you a Grand Cherokee. Periud.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by RWebb

thx - I do put gnd. clearance as #2 in importance (after tire failure).

how would you rank the 4wd systems after the one on the Jeep GC?

Just the four wheel drive, not the suspension or electronic/nanny interface, would put Audi's Torsen system #1.

The pre-2011 Touareg/Cayenne is an equal to the 2011 Grand Cherokee, but a little apples to oranges.

Then Subaru's AWD..... simple but effective, and near 50/50

Then late model BMW X drive or MBZ 4Matic

The bottom of the order would be the Lexus RX/Toyota Highlander (7.3" GC), Ford Escape (8.1" GC), Honda Pilot/Acura MDX(8.0" GC) (with the exception of the latest SH-AWD MDX which uses electronics to enhance handling). Front drive with the ability to send power rearward after slipping is NOT the best, but it's a good compromise for other attributes like fuel economy, wear (esp tires), NVH, and weight.

[JeremyD]

yep -= V-6 on my end - it's plenty... and that's coming from a v-8 Nissan Armada.

[jyl]

For the px of a new GC or similar you could probably get a sweet Westy synchro and have Daryl in Seattle stuff a turbo Zetec or 6 cyl subie for 200 HP. And only pay 1 insurance bill. And get back most of your money when you sell. Just a thought.

Come to think of it, for substantially less you could probably buy a donor synchro and have someone transplant the running gear into your Westy.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by RWebb

thx - I do put gnd. clearance as #2 in importance (after tire failure).

how would you rank the 4wd systems after the one on the Jeep GC?

I had one in the past, and I liked it, not as much clearance as some trucks.. But I did take it through some mud holes (really) and didn't stick it, I also saw one run a mud bog in The ZOO at the 12 Hours of Sebring and it did much better than some of the regular, jacked up 4X4s...

On the new ones, a Girlfriend has one, a V8, loaded, the only problem is it some times doesn't want to start, sounds like a bad starter or dead battery, but it has been to the dealer 3 times, and they have yet to figure it out, other than that (which could be isolated to Deb's) a nice ride. One other thing you will like about it is that it has lots of Cup Holders

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by jyl

For the px of a new GC or similar you could probably get a sweet Westy synchro and have Daryl in Seattle stuff a turbo Zetec or 6 cyl subie for 200 HP. And only pay 1 insurance bill. And get back most of your money when you sell. Just a thought.

Come to think of it, for substantially less you could probably buy a donor synchro and have someone transplant the running gear into your Westy.

cannot be done here - not in th e last 3 years anyway

there are tons of vanerguns trolling the streets - literally, one on every block at least - YET nothing has come up on CL in that time period

[RWebb]

Byron - she has a 2011? 2010?

cup holders are fine in non-sports cars!

[jyl]

I bet if you dangled new-car kind of $, something would turn up - at least a non-westy syncro to use for conversion- attend syncro de mayo this year, or come to the next PDX vanagon meet, and ask around

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Byron - she has a 2011? 2010?

cup holders are fine in non-sports cars!

2010, Black.. Yea, finding a syncro isn't easy, finding a deal on one, now that is a good one.. I have heard of more people getting deals on nice 911 than a syncro, faCT...

[jyl]

Samba - syncro westys for $20-28k, some w/ engine conversions already.

Spendy for an old vw. But in 5 hrs that old vw will be worth close to what you paid while the 2011 jeep will be worth very little.

[chocolatelab]

1. winter trips over the pass to go back-country skiing

2. daily driver (esp. in summer as it had A/C)

3. bad road car (could not reach everything I want or need to get to, having only 8" of gnd. clearance)

RW, Here is something you may not have thought of. I got one this past spring and it is hands down the handiest vehicle I have ever owned.

1. Handles snow awesome, drove it to mammoth 2 times this year. Got all around town during the 3 day 14 feet of snow blizzard no chains required just before xmas. One day it was absolutely dumping and Bryce and I just jumped in the back after skiing and changed in the van before we hit the road. Plenty of room for skiis, boots, poles, skins, shovels, avalanche wands, backpacks, sleeping bags ect.

2. Comfortable and easy to cruise around especially if you need room for the random home depot run. It gets great gas mileage plus it has a huge fuel tank (550 miles per tank).

WARNING (Not in the least bit sexy for date night)

3. I have done a decent amount of offroad driving to joshua tree and ocotillo

The vehicle of your dreams just may be a Chevy Express Van with AWD.