Huge Traffic Fine increase in California

[Jim Bremner]

yes, fines are punishment.

Do the fines equal the crime?

If the fine is greater than the crimes impact is this just? I'll agree for the fine for running red lights. but is 80mph in a 65 zone worth $400? no

I feel that fining someone a weeks wages is unjust.

I do however feel that if a member of our police forces or a judge get's poped for the crime it should be 2x what you or I should pay.


Large County Average Weekly Wages

Average weekly wages in 11 of California’s 27 largest counties placed in the top third of the national ranking among the 334 largest counties nationwide in the fourth quarter of 2009. Three counties ranked in the top ten—Santa Clara ($1,699 ranked 2nd), San Francisco ($1,539,7th), and San Mateo ($1,477, 9th). Five other large counties placed in the top half of the national ranking. (See table 1.)

At the other end of the wage spectrum, Tulare County ($666) reported the lowest average weekly wage in the State, followed by Butte ($720) and Riverside ($757).

Nationally, average weekly wages were higher than average in 105 of the 334 largest counties. New York, N.Y. County recorded the highest average weekly wage at $1,878, followed by Santa Clara, Calif. at $1,699. Rounding out the top five were Washington, D.C. ($1,614), Fairfield Conn. ($1,607), and Arlington, Va. ($1,594). Horry, S.C. ($584), reported the lowest wage, followed by the counties of Cameron and Hidalgo, Texas ($598 each), and Yakima, Wash. ($640).

Average Weekly Wages in California’s Smaller Counties

All 31 counties in California with employment below 75,000 had average wages lower than the national average of $942. Trinity County reported the lowest weekly wage among the smaller counties, averaging $611 in fourth quarter of 2009. (See table 2.)

When all 58 counties in California were considered, all but 11 had wages below the national average of $942. Among these 58 counties, 16 reported weekly wages below $699, 17 reported wages from $700 to $799, 11 posted wages from $800 to $899, and 14 had wages higher than $900. (See chart 1.)

[slodave]

It's a scare tactic. With all the people that drive 80 in a 65 (I'm no angel either), it would seem to me that the current fines are not really encouraging people to slow down. I can see why the fines would go up. Make the punishment steeper and hopefully people will start to comply.

I'm a struggling, very small business owner. Yes, the fines are steep. You can bet that I never go into the carpool lane unless I have two or more. When I break other motor laws, I keep one eye in the rear view mirror and one scanning in front. I also understand that in doing so, I may find myself at the side of the road at some point with flashing lights behind me.

People parking in handicapped spots is a big pet peeve of mine. You don't have a placard, you should get your car towed and impounded on top of the ticket.

[aigel]

I can comment on one of the speeding fines. Paid exactly that in April 2010. So it has not been increased for 2011.

That said, it is true that the roads are crawling with law enforcement looking to collect on speeding and other sins compared to 2008 and earlier, so drive slowly and carefully ...

G

[Jim Bremner]

The only law that I ABUSE is the 65mph limit. Tell me how just of a law is it that the majority of the traffic when given the space to drive at a higher speed will?

How much do you want to bet that the majority off duty judges, chp and other people inforcing this law follow it?

I drive a ton of miles. I seldom look at my speedo in the city. For some reason I'm almost always driving the poted limit off of the highway.

Out on the highway I'm at a speed that I feel is safe and prudent 80mph seems right

[slodave]

The city/county/state should do road surveys and see if it is prudent to raise the speed limits in certain areas.

I drive a fair amount of miles as well. My clients don't come to me, I go to them.

What you really need to do Jim, is buy a Toyota Corolla - gold. They are invisible to the LEO and will do 115.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by aigel

That said, it is true that the roads are crawling with law enforcement looking to collect on speeding and other sins...

And to justify their own existence against the bean-counters' axe . Funny how all these public employees seem to work harder and make their roles seem all the more necessary and profitable to the interests they serve when threatened with the same layoffs that those of us in the private sector live under threat of daily...

If PDs really were interested in earning the trust and respect of the public, they'd focus more on real crime and the real threats to safety out on the road, not just playing the whole "increased presence" game whilst sitting on their collective asses with a radar gun in one hand and a ticket book (or donut) in the other.

[Noah930]

If LEO were truly interested in public safety, they'd sit very prominently on the side of the road, so that passing traffic would see them and slow down. They wouldn't hide behind bridges and trees and signs and whatnot.

[slodave]

They do that on many interstates. One on each side of a bridge pylon. Very visible, just that radar/laser goes a lot farther.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Noah930

If LEO were truly interested in public safety, they'd sit very prominently on the side of the road, so that passing traffic would see them and slow down. They wouldn't hide behind bridges and trees and signs and whatnot.

Leaving the "public safety" out of the equation, I see the above in multiple steps.

1) fines set, but eventually do not deter.

2) since the fines are not working, set the cops out at the side of the road to catch some of the scofflaws, make 'em pay, hopefully the lesson is learned, maybe they pass the lesson on to their friends.

Make sense to me.

[Noah930]

hey do that on many interstates. One on each side of a bridge pylon. Very visible, just that radar/laser goes a lot farther.

CHP doesn't do that--at least not frequently. Admittedly half the time they're on the shoulder of a road. The other half of the time I find them hiding behind a tree or a fence (on a frontage road, no less, with convenient on-ramp access at the end of the fence).

At least they're not like what I've heard in other states, where they'll set up a civilian vehicle on the side of the road, pretending that it's changing a tire or some other premise where the trunk gets opened up, and shoot lidar/radar using said trunk as cover.

[slodave]

The last time I was popped by the CHP, yeah, he was behind a tree. His car was not. It was prominently parked on the side of the road.

[silverwhaletail]

Yawn. Good Gosh, if you want to drive as fast as you want and never have to worry about getting a ticket, then become a cop. I haven't had a ticket since 1983.

I can't even remember the last time that I looked at my speedometer. As a matter of fact, what's a speedometer???

Do as I say, not as I do. etc. etc.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

My issue isn't necessarily with the tactics (although admittedly some are dirtier than others), it's with the premise behind the underlying laws - 100% about revenue. Any safety benefit is an unintended side benefit.

These sorts of stupid laws that exist solely to redistribute wealth from one group of people and give it to another ought not exist, IMHO. And to see LE spending such disproportionate amounts of their resources enforcing these laws (the stupid ones) is quite frustrating.

Police departments were never intended to be profitable. Neither were courts. Both represent liabilities (not assets) to the governments that support them and the people who support those governments. That's the way it's supposed to work - that they perform their duties to higher and more noble aspirations than simple dollars in the name of upholding higher principles. Somewhere along the line we've lost our way and put pressure on the PDs and the courts systems to defray their operating costs (admittedly some of this probably comes from stories of abuses of public money like every other corrupt government agency). The fact of the matter remains that if the public-at-large wants an orderly society, there are some things it has to be willing to pay for - and law enforcement and the court system are two of them.

Of course this presupposes that the laws being enforced and upheld in the courts are sensible to begin with, but that's an entirely different discussion. We have WAY too many stupid/unnecessary laws that simply enable an ever-increasing high-budget bureaucracy and police departments that simply toss anything and everything back under "public safety", which is a load of horse manure (a variation on the old, "won't someone please think of the children" sensationalism to make it politically incorrect to ever talk about curtailing the budgets/scope of "those who know what's best for us").

Rubbish.

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

And to see LE spending such disproportionate amounts of their resources enforcing these laws (the stupid ones) is quite frustrating. .

Take it up with your local city councilmen.

p.s. Hey P-O-P ! Isn't it ironic that I'm still out here living the California Dream and you have become a M*********????

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Given the state of affairs and the condition CA is in, I wouldn't have it any other way! And fortunately we don't have too many stupid laws here, at least on the local level. Most of them are of the state or federal variety. Local government here is pretty restrained, which is a breath of fresh air coming from the People's Republic.

And we both know that the "talk to your congressman/selectman/mayor/whatever" is rubbish. The government and it's lawmakers have ceased to have accountability to the people they supposedly represent. They no longer listen to the people and we both know it. It's unfortunate to see LE (and so many individuals who really want to make things better) get misused and dragged into the middle of upholding a broken system that I for one no longer believe in. They've become the King's Guardsmen (more like the King's Tax Collectors), upholding the despotic tyrant and shaking down the peasants for their tribute. Sad to see. I grew up in a world where we were always taught that the cops were the good guys. Now, that line isn't so black/white anymore.

And FWIW I wouldn't exactly call current-day Kalifornia "living the dream", especially when one is dependent on a bankrupt state for their paycheck... I'm certainly not wishing ill on you or anything - here's to hoping it somehow works out for everyone out there, but I'd be pretty damn nervous if I were on the gov't payroll in CA right about now.

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

And FWIW I wouldn't exactly call current-day Kalifornia "living the dream", especially when one is dependent on a bankrupt state for their paycheck... I'm certainly not wishing ill on you or anything - here's to hoping it somehow works out for everyone out there, but I'd be pretty damn nervous if I were on the gov't payroll in CA right about now.

Rubbish. You would give ANYTHING to be on a hot career track, living in California. It's 59 degrees at 3 o'clock in the morning right now.

Instead, your in misery, in Massachusetts, contemplating existence as a liberal Mass.Hole. Your children will be doomed to a life of that weird dialect and constant tailgating.

Remember just a few short years ago when I was lamenting how much I missed living in "fly over country" and you ridiculed me and told me how lucky you were to be living in an apartment in "The City, City of Long Beach" where you had an attached garage and blah blah blah???

As the Rev. Jeremiah Wright would say, "The P-O-P has come home to roost!"

And one more thing. California is too big to fail.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

As if. Things change and Kalifornia has certainly done so for the worse. When I left LB the neighborhood was running about 1/3 vacancy rates, crime was on the rise and unemployment was skyrocketing. I was very lucky to get the position out here - there certainly weren't any comparable ones out there. Last I looked NH (where I am) was doing pretty well. 4th lowest unemployment in the nation, good schools, business growth, etc. Not too bad. I'd take that over Detroit with nicer weather at this point. Even MA (which is more liberal admittedly and where my current job is based out of) is doing all right. Plenty of work there too.

Yeah the weather is/was nicer in the PRC (depending on where you are I guess) but there are other considerations. Sure there are some things I miss about CA (better coffee, in-n-out, etc) but all-in-all I have to say this has worked out pretty well.

Maybe I'll end up back west in a few years... Or not... If I do I almost certainly wouldn't do CA again - unless it changes DRAMATICALLY - but I've always had a soft spot for AZ and TX... Maybe even NV, but Vegas gets tired pretty fast.

I certainly wouldn't go back to the Midwest either, at least not by choice. Yuk!

I hafta' say life in the "Live Free or Die" state is pretty good right now. I ain't complaining any (although it'd be nice if spring would hurry up so I can get out on my bike again - I'm sick of using the trainer...)

Good luck out there under Jerry's Kids. Y'all are gonna need it methinks.

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

If I do I almost certainly wouldn't do CA again - unless it changes DRAMATICALLY

Oh, it's changing alright. I just read that Hispanics are now 50.1% of the pupils in public schools. That demographic votes in a way that ... well, that demographic just votes a certain way.

California, long term, is doomed.

I'm pleased that you landed in NH. For some reason I thought that you were in Mass and that you were now a Mass&ole. ( I love saying Mass&hole. ) Further, I'm glad to see that you and your wife are getting serious about buying a home. Screw the investment aspect of it. I just want you two to have a nice place to put down roots and live a nice life. If you decide to have children and God blesses you with a rug rat or two, then even better. A man without principle is nothing. I admire you for not compromising your beliefs/values. New England is better because you are there.

I'm not sweating my work situation. The city that I work for is loaded and while we have been working without a contract for 2 years, the city has not even hinted at one single "give-back." I made over 15k in OT last year, without even really trying. (I have a 7 year old that I would rather be at home with. 7 is an awesome age.)

I attended a conference in Vegas just before Christmas and spent 3 hours with the senior actuary of CALPERS. I'm not worried. I'm already vested, have 20 years in the system, have 4 to go and am "buying" 3 more.

The state and most cities are hiring new employees at a different pension formula than the one that I have, and that, along with other measures like capping pensions at 75% instead of 90%, will amortize their pension obligations in such a manner that it will all work out over the long run.

And if the economy does miraculously turn around, then this wailing and gnashing of teeth will have all been for nothing anyway. Because, mark my words, if the economy does recover, California will go right back to it's "drunken sailor spending spree" immediately.

California is .... California.