How's this for irony?

[Evans, Marv]

In '68, I crashed when wearing a helmet - an old (new at that time) Bell with the snap on face shield. I'm certainly glad I was wearing it. I also, in my young & daring youth, learned something else about riding a bike. Don't drink & ride. I was coming home at about 3 am after a party on a mountain road & dozed off ( I think) in a curve. I came out of it OK & got the bike fixed, but confirmed one thing (wear a helmet) & got another (don't drink & ride) ingrained into my head.

[Neilk]

Originally Posted by dottore

this is really simple rick. You are smart enough to always wear a helmet. Many are not. That's why you need the helmet law.

+ 1

[speeder]

Interesting debate wrt Libertarianism. Everyone seems to enjoy freedom, (whether they properly appreciate it or not), but there is the theorem of "your rights end where mine begin". IOW, you do not have the right to burn pig schit on your property if I have to breath it next door. You can do whatever crazy/dangerous/stupid stuff you want as long as i don't have to pay for the results.

That pretty much encapsulates society's attitude about helmet-less MC riders. They make great organ donors but they can also cost taxpayers millions when they wind-up brain dead for decades on a ventilator in a public/county hospital. And don't think it doesn't happen. I've known some personally.

I enjoy being able to take a mellow scooter ride in MN. w/o a helmet, maybe around the lake or something. Of course there is a risk of head injury but it's minimal when I'm sober and riding like the middle-aged guy that I am. In theory and principle, I am against helmet laws because it's the state affecting my body directly. (What I can wear while riding a MC). Still, there are some very powerful arguments for helmet laws.

Oddly enough, the two states I live in have each reversed their MC helmet laws in opposite directions in my life of riding. Minnesota used to have a helmet law but repealed it in about 1977, CA. never had a helmet law until 1992. Helmet laws are particularly offensive to Harley riders, just messes up the whole look, I guess...

I also have a *helmet saved me* story. I crashed a Vespa scooter in Paris back in about '02. (Bicyclist turned in front of me while I was going ~40mph). I dumped the scooter and went cart-wheeling down the boulevard, my head hit the pavement so hard that it knocked me out cold and broke my eardrum. I would certainly be dead or a potted plant if I was helmetless. Ironically, (or not), France has socialised medical care that is excellent and they scraped me off the street, put me in an ambulance and treated me @ the ER w/o ever even asking for ID. The care was excellent including X-rays and an MRI and the people were fantastic including the FD paramedics.

Here I am in one piece at the hospital, (w/ broken ribs and eardrum):

[Neilk]

Originally Posted by masraum

The problem as I see it is two-fold. People are stupid. Everyone ends up paying for the stupid people.

If there's a way for us to reduce the cost of the stupid people, and it isn't impacting me adversely, then I'm OK with it. We just have to watch "the line" and make sure that it isn't crossed.

Morbid though of the day...I would like to see some stats on motorcycle injuries. Is it more expensive to treat a rider who has an accident wearing a helmet or treating someone not wearing a helmet who dies quickly?

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Dottore

This is really simple Rick. You are smart enough to always wear a helmet. Many are not. That's why you need the helmet law.

"Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves."

[speeder]

It's more expensive to treat someone who is brain-dead but still alive, sometimes for decades. This is unlikely w/ helmet use and extremely common w/o helmet use. A crash at walking speed can cause catastrophic brain injury when your melon hits the concrete.

[Rick Lee]

I'm sure it happens, but around here we hear about bikers dying at least once a week either at the scene or shortly after they arrive at the hospital. Lots of idiots on the highways without helmets and at least one a week dies. I never hear about any of them spending years in comas. Again, probably happens, but I doubt it's very common.

Now I did ride through a swarm of bees once and I was totally covered in full gear. I do kind of wonder what happened to those Harley guys behind me wearing jeans, t-shirts and no helmets.

[sammyg2]

Darwin has it waaay too easy.
in the movie top gun, I believe they referred to it as "a target rich environment".

But, it's his own choice. He should be allowed to kill himself, it's no one else's business, no matter how "progressive" they are.

But there's an asterisk attached to that: If you're stoopid enough to do something that puts you in a hospital, you pay the freaking bill. Not me, not the gubmint, you.
If you can't pay and no one is willing to step up and pay the bill for you because of your stoopidity, you get put out on the street.

I bet if we all lived a world like that, a world of common sense with accountability and personal responsibility, allot of morons would be less likely to do stoopid things.

See, the real morons in this story are the people who created the situation in the first place.
The people who make excuses for the stupidity of others.
The people who think they should make decisions for others because they know better.
The people who use OPM to pay for the stupidity of others.
the people who destroyed all accountability and personal responsibility.

They are the ones to blame.

[Rick Lee]

Even in the states with helmet laws, plenty of organ donors wear the bare minimum to comply with the law. You've probably seen "beanie" helmets before. They'll do absolutely nothing to save your melon in a crash. But they satisfy the do-gooders who want the law to keep them safe.

[andyt11]

You gotta love the "I've got the right to make my own decisions" crowd.

Everyone wants to have the right to do whatever they like. Trouble is, no one wants to take responsibility for the out comes.

[andyt11]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

"Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves."

Either that or we go the other way and don't save you. Could just let you expire at the side of the road. Would be cheaper. Just sayin.

[Rick Lee]

I already have an emergency medical directive, I'm well insured, both for life and health. Not my fault if others insist on paying to do things I don't want done to me. There are far more dangerous things that threaten far more people's lives that are perfectly legal than the relatively miniscule number of motorcyclists who choose to ride sans helmet and hurt only themselves in so doing. The distracted driving I see out there every single day is downright terrifying, none of it is illegal and it's a threat to everyone on the road. My not wearing a helmet threatens no one by myself.

[McLovin]

Do you believe the Govt should restrict your freedom to do this?

[dlockhart]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Do you believe the Govt should restrict your freedom to do this?

nope

[McLovin]

Communist.

[sc_rufctr]

An ex nurse's point of view.

I've had to cut off many helmets because the rider was brought in and there was no way to get the helmet off without cutting it.
After some time I actually became pretty good at halving a helmet with someone's head inside. Sometimes I could cut the back and the front and then get enough spread to get it off.
Then you have the discovery stage. Not good and always stressful. You try to do your best for the casualty but often there is so much damage there's not much you can do.
And their family is in the waiting room praying for a miracle.

[dlockhart]

Knocked out, broken collar bone and apparently slid off the track on my face.

I have 2 other rashed up, junk lids around here somewhere.

I really like that one.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by dlockhart

Knocked out, broken collar bone and apparently slid off the track on my face...

I have 2 other rashed up, junk lids around here somewhere.

I really like that one.

Good job... And you're still here. I bet you felt euphoric after seeing that damage.

[widgeon13]

I bet the guy wishes he wore a helmet now!

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

I bet the guy wishes he wore a helmet now!

Nope, he is dead, he can't wish at all. His family wishes he was not a idiot when he was alive.